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Forum
-> Inquiries & Offers
-> Israel related Inquiries & Aliyah Questions
Reality
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 Mon, Jun 24 2024, 4:13 am
| amother Cobalt wrote: | I actually noticed the trend in this thread and in past threads that Israeli posters support each other's posts until they're called out on it and then suddenly they never said those things.
It is so odd that on other social media sites I am one of the biggest advocates for Israel but on this frum site I end up somehow arguing the opposite.
I regret even being here during a time that Jews around the world and in Israel are at risk sakanas nefashos. I can do better.
When moshiach comes, we will all return, not out of fear, or persuasion, or love of the land. We will come because Hashem has finally returned to His home down here. |
This has nothing to do with support. And even IF I did agree with something, I may not have posted it in that way or at all. In this instance, I went to Bais Yaakov. I never learned that and never heard about this until it was posted on imamother. Don't hurl insults my way based on what other posters wrote. I write under my screen name so it's really easy to keep track of my opinions.
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amother
Cobalt
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Mon, Jun 24 2024, 4:50 am
| Reality wrote: | | This has nothing to do with support. And even IF I did agree with something, I may not have posted it in that way or at all. In this instance, I went to Bais Yaakov. I never learned that and never heard about this until it was posted on imamother. Don't hurl insults my way based on what other posters wrote. I write under my screen name so it's really easy to keep track of my opinions. |
Ok I understand.
Please confirm for us then that you personally do not believe that Jews in chul keeping Torah and mitzvos is only practice for when we get to Israel.
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amother
Cobalt
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Mon, Jun 24 2024, 4:53 am
| shabbatiscoming wrote: | | You do realize that not all of the israeli women here are only dati leumi, right? |
Yes I was remembering the last time I was involved in this conversation, and the similar responses there.
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salt
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Mon, Jun 24 2024, 4:55 am
| amother Cobalt wrote: | Ok I understand.
Please confirm for us then that you personally do not believe that Jews in chul keeping Torah and mitzvos is only practice for when we get to Israel. |
But the midrash says this explicitly.
I can understand why it might be a sore point though.
(I'm a different poster btw)
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amother
Cobalt
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Mon, Jun 24 2024, 5:05 am
| salt wrote: | But the midrash says this explicitly.
I can understand why it might be a sore point though.
(I'm a different poster btw) |
I think it's a ramban which is different than a midrash but in any case, giving his single opinion with no nuance or explanation makes it less than true.
Here is one explanation I found that makes sense to me:
https://aish.com/the-power-of-.....rael/
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salt
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Mon, Jun 24 2024, 5:20 am
| amother Cobalt wrote: | I think it's a ramban which is different than a midrash but in any case, giving his single opinion with no nuance or explanation makes it less than true.
Here is one explanation I found that makes sense to me:
https://aish.com/the-power-of-.....rael/ |
קען זיין
(it's also rashi on the same passuk).
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Reality
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Mon, Jun 24 2024, 5:28 am
| amother Cobalt wrote: | Ok I understand.
Please confirm for us then that you personally do not believe that Jews in chul keeping Torah and mitzvos is only practice for when we get to Israel. |
I find that a little extreme.
Your response to my saying I never learned this and never heard of this until imamother is I now have to publicly post my allegiance to your views? Is this a litmus test to check if I'm "normal"?
Shivim Panim L'Torah.
I could be ignorant and they could be right. They can be taking it out of context. I truly have no idea. I do have tremendous respect for Rav Kook. I have never studied any of his seforim because again, I went to Bais Yaakov.
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amother
Cobalt
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Mon, Jun 24 2024, 5:38 am
| Reality wrote: | I find that a little extreme.
Your response to my saying I never learned this and never heard of this until imamother is I now have to publicly post my allegiance to your views? Is this a litmus test to check if I'm "normal"?
Shivim Panim L'Torah.
I could be ignorant and they could be right. They can be taking it out of context. I truly have no idea. I do have tremendous respect for Rav Kook. I have never studied any of his seforim because again, I went to Bais Yaakov. |
No it's extreme to think that all the Jews outside Israel are doing mitzvos merely for practice.
No matter where one went to school, it shouldn't be too hard to form an opinion on this statement.
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Reality
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Mon, Jun 24 2024, 5:47 am
| amother Cobalt wrote: | No it's extreme to think that all the Jews outside Israel are doing mitzvos merely for practice.
No matter where one went to school, it shouldn't be too hard to form an opinion on this statement. |
Seriously.
A lot of things that many sects of Judaism do or believe appear extreme.
I have no opinion on how Satmar women choose to cover their hair either.
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amother
Outerspace
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Mon, Jun 24 2024, 5:48 am
| Reality wrote: | I find that a little extreme.
Your response to my saying I never learned this and never heard of this until imamother is I now have to publicly post my allegiance to your views? Is this a litmus test to check if I'm "normal"?
Shivim Panim L'Torah.
I could be ignorant and they could be right. They can be taking it out of context. I truly have no idea. I do have tremendous respect for Rav Kook. I have never studied any of his seforim because again, I went to Bais Yaakov. |
This was discussed on the last thread but I’ll say it again here. Many many gedolim/gedolei Hador lived in chutz laarerz. Did their mitzvos not count?
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amother
Cobalt
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Mon, Jun 24 2024, 5:50 am
| Reality wrote: | Seriously.
A lot of things that many sects of Judaism do or believe appear extreme.
I have no opinion on how Satmar women choose to cover their hair either. |
How Satmar women cover their hair doesn't disparage the rest of klal Yisrael.
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amother
Daphne
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Mon, Jun 24 2024, 6:10 am
| amother Cobalt wrote: | Ok I understand.
Please confirm for us then that you personally do not believe that Jews in chul keeping Torah and mitzvos is only practice for when we get to Israel. |
Please stop attacking Reality for this post. I said it, and I only said it in the context of the words of our chachamim that spoke to me to make me make aliyah. No one undercut what you’re doing.
The Ramban writes it. Never learned it in BY or seminary. My dh learned it with me. I was so perplexed that I spoke to two rabbanim in the USA and his rebbi in Israel. They confirmed it. I moved. Make your own cheshbonot, but the words of the ramban don’t change and please stop speaking this way to other posters. I did believe it enough to move, but to demand another poster confirms their personal belief about Jews outside of Israel is wrong. I trusted the ramban’s interpretation of an pasuk enough to move because it was the ramban. It was absolutely essential to me. That’s all that was stated. I think this is being taken too far.
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Reality
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Mon, Jun 24 2024, 6:11 am
| amother Cobalt wrote: | | How Satmar women cover their hair doesn't disparage the rest of klal Yisrael. |
Those amothers say they are quoting Rashi and Ramban. Rashi never set foot in Eretz Yisrael. Ramban spent most of his life in chutz laaretz. If I remember correctly, he died very shortly after finally making it here.
If they didn't think it was disparaging and it was 100% applicable to their own ability to perform mitzvos, I truly don't understand why you do.
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Reality
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Mon, Jun 24 2024, 6:24 am
| amother Daphne wrote: | Please stop attacking Reality for this post. I said it, and I only said it in the context of the words of our chachamim that spoke to me to make me make aliyah. No one undercut what you’re doing.
The Ramban writes it. Never learned it in BY or seminary. My dh learned it with me. I was so perplexed that I spoke to two rabbanim in the USA and his rebbi in Israel. They confirmed it. I moved. Make your own cheshbonot, but the words of the ramban don’t change and please stop speaking this way to other posters. I did believe it enough to move, but to demand another poster confirms their personal belief about Jews outside of Israel is wrong. I trusted the ramban’s interpretation of an pasuk enough to move because it was the ramban. It was absolutely essential to me. That’s all that was stated. I think this is being taken too far. |
Thank you so much. I do appreciate you standing up for me.
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amother
Outerspace
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Mon, Jun 24 2024, 6:27 am
| amother Daphne wrote: | Please stop attacking Reality for this post. I said it, and I only said it in the context of the words of our chachamim that spoke to me to make me make aliyah. No one undercut what you’re doing.
The Ramban writes it. Never learned it in BY or seminary. My dh learned it with me. I was so perplexed that I spoke to two rabbanim in the USA and his rebbi in Israel. They confirmed it. I moved. Make your own cheshbonot, but the words of the ramban don’t change and please stop speaking this way to other posters. I did believe it enough to move, but to demand another poster confirms their personal belief about Jews outside of Israel is wrong. I trusted the ramban’s interpretation of an pasuk enough to move because it was the ramban. It was absolutely essential to me. That’s all that was stated. I think this is being taken too far. |
So what about all the chachamim and gedolim who lived/ stayed in chutz laaretz?
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amother
Cobalt
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Mon, Jun 24 2024, 6:27 am
| amother Daphne wrote: | Please stop attacking Reality for this post. I said it, and I only said it in the context of the words of our chachamim that spoke to me to make me make aliyah. No one undercut what you’re doing.
The Ramban writes it. Never learned it in BY or seminary. My dh learned it with me. I was so perplexed that I spoke to two rabbanim in the USA and his rebbi in Israel. They confirmed it. I moved. Make your own cheshbonot, but the words of the ramban don’t change and please stop speaking this way to other posters. I did believe it enough to move, but to demand another poster confirms their personal belief about Jews outside of Israel is wrong. I trusted the ramban’s interpretation of an pasuk enough to move because it was the ramban. It was absolutely essential to me. That’s all that was stated. I think this is being taken too far. |
You are not the only one that said it. It's been said in the past, and I asked the exact same thing last time it came up.
Reality happened to have asked not to be lumped in to what other Israelis are saying, so I asked her personal opinion on this quote.
To make a hashkafa out of something that is condescending to millions of Jews around the world- to me that is not ok.
I think I've said this enough times by now.
Next time someone in Israel is "curious" about why Jews don't come, maybe because it's more Jewish to be in chul not looking down on anyone else.
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amother
Cobalt
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Mon, Jun 24 2024, 6:30 am
| Reality wrote: | Those amothers say they are quoting Rashi and Ramban. Rashi never set foot in Eretz Yisrael. Ramban spent most of his life in chutz laaretz. If I remember correctly, he died very shortly after finally making it here.
If they didn't think it was disparaging and it was 100% applicable to their own ability to perform mitzvos, I truly don't understand why you do. |
I explained before that a tzaddik is never disparaging on other Jews. The average person can say the same exact words except they stink.
Secondly they take a single quote literally and run with it. If you look deeper into it, it suddenly doesn't sound the same way.
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DVOM
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Mon, Jun 24 2024, 6:55 am
| amother Cobalt wrote: | Ok I understand.
Please confirm for us then that you personally do not believe that Jews in chul keeping Torah and mitzvos is only practice for when we get to Israel. |
Followed this conversation from the sidelines until reading this.
This comment is bullying. She doesn't have to believe what you believe, and certainly doesn't have to confirm it for you. Oy.
I'm not sure what you find so insulting.
I, in Chul, personally believe that keeping Torah and Mitzvos here is only practice for when we get to Eretz Yisroel.
I don't know exactly what that means. How are any of us supposed to really understand how God 'counts' our Mitzvos? But it does make sense to be that the quality of observance is different inside and outside of Israel. Haven't you ever felt the difference? I know I have. Feelings aside though, the Ramban and Rashi are religious authorities that I trust. They've said it. Tough luck in me if I don't like it.
I'll leave the way in which my little acts of observance, my little sacrifices and struggles, are tallied up to God, and just continue doing my best down here.
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amother
Cobalt
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Mon, Jun 24 2024, 7:04 am
| DVOM wrote: | Followed this conversation from the sidelines until reading this.
This comment is bullying. She doesn't have to believe what you believe, and certainly doesn't have to confirm it for you. Oy.
I'm not sure what you find so insulting.
I, in Chul, personally believe that keeping Torah and Mitzvos here is only practice for when we get to Eretz Yisroel.
I don't know exactly what that means. How are any of us supposed to really understand how God 'counts' our Mitzvos? But it does make sense to be that the quality of observance is different inside and outside of Israel. Haven't you ever felt the difference? I know I have. Feelings aside though, the Ramban and Rashi are religious authorities that I trust. They've said it. Tough luck in me if I don't like it.
I'll leave the way in which my little acts of observance, my little sacrifices and struggles, are tallied up to God, and just continue doing my best down here. |
This is not the way I understand things but in any case:
Dear Reality,
I did not mean to insult or bully you. I meant to ask for clarification. I'm sorry if I came across too strongly, I feel very strongly on this topic. Please accept my mechila, I'll either tone it down or leave the conversation like I did last time.
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amother
Outerspace
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Mon, Jun 24 2024, 7:07 am
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Again someone please answer me and tell me how the mitzvos of the Lubavitcher rebbe or Rav Moshe or the Chafetz Chaim were just practice
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