I am very curious about not making aliyah

↑ essie14 ↓

Sun, Jun 23 2024, 5:50 am

amother Outerspace wrote:

So is it true or is it not true that there is judgement towards us who have not chosen to make Aliyah?

Had anyone who not positing anonymously said that? Please show us.
I have never ever in my years on this site posting anything judgemental about people who live in ch"ul.
My entire family has chosen not to follow me and make aliyah.
I simply don't appreciate assumptions being made about why I and thousand of others made aliyah.

All of us Israeli posters here love loving here, otherwise we wouldn't be here.

↑ shabbatiscoming ↓

Sun, Jun 23 2024, 5:50 am

amother Outerspace wrote:

So is it true or is it not true that there is judgement towards us who have not chosen to make Aliyah?

I truly think there is no judgment.
You know like when someone starts something new and they love it so much they want the whole world to do that thing too? So I think thats what its like. Those of us who have made aliyah love that we did and we want to share that with everyone else, to feel that same feeling we all have / had making aliyah. Does that make any sense? its not judgement, its wanting to share.

amother

↑ Outerspace ↓

Sun, Jun 23 2024, 5:54 am

shabbatiscoming wrote:

It makes sense if it were accurate.

Saying “your mitzvos don’t count” “I’m tired of your excuses” (a diff thread) is not sharing. It’s judgement.

Sharing rav kook is not sharing their love for living there.

Every time these threads happen “I don’t think your excuses are good enough” is professed to be a love for the land and the decision to leave.

But how often are there threads actually about a love for the land vs your excuses are not good enough

amother

↑ Lightgray ↓

Sun, Jun 23 2024, 5:55 am

shabbatiscoming wrote:

So saying that those of us in chul’s mitzvahs don’t count because they’re just practice for Israel isn’t judgmental? It feels pretty judgmental to me.

I understand why people make Aliyah and I think it’s great for them if they want to do it. But I have friend amongst my friends that made Aliyah there is definitely judginess/ an attitude that those who didn’t are lesser or don’t understand things and that attitude is gross frankly.

amother

↑ Outerspace ↓

Sun, Jun 23 2024, 5:55 am

essie14 wrote:

Yea we were told our Mitzvos don’t count

↑ shabbatiscoming ↓

Sun, Jun 23 2024, 5:58 am

amother Lightgray wrote:

No, its not judgement, its what some have learned, that jews in chul is sort of like a staging ground for the real deal with hashem.
I know I learned that once, with a very zioni teacher. Its not meant as judgement, at least I dont think it is. I think its the way things are learned, and differently, as we see.

amother

↑ Lightgray ↓

Sun, Jun 23 2024, 6:00 am

shabbatiscoming wrote:

No, its not judgement, its what some have learned, that jews in chul is sort of like a staging ground for the real deal with hashem.
I know I learned that once, with a very zioni teacher. It’s not meant as judgement, at least I dont think it is. I think it’s the way things are learned, and differently, as we see.

Seriously? Well then I guess there’s no point in me keeping any mitzvos because if I’m not moving then they’ll never count.

Some people are clearly so blinded by their own prejudices that they can’t see judgment when it’s right in front of them.

amother

↑ Outerspace ↓

Sun, Jun 23 2024, 6:01 am

shabbatiscoming wrote:

I truly think there is no judgment.
You know like when someone starts something new and they love it so much they want the whole world to do that thing too? So I think thats what it’s like. Those of us who have made aliyah love that we did and we want to share that with everyone else, to feel that same feeling we all have / had making aliyah. Does that make any sense? its not judgement, its wanting to share.

If this were the case it would be presented with positivity not negativity. Negativity equals judgement.

For those who are still unsure here is an example:

Positive: we made Aliyah 10 years ago and love it. It was so challenging but B”H we made it work. I really wish everyone would know that it is possible to overcome barriers. If you’d like to hear more please ask me

Negative:
Oh please, you can’t go, we had all those barriers and more. We did just fine. And anyways our mitzvos are actually worth more than yours

amother

↑ Outerspace ↓

Sun, Jun 23 2024, 6:07 am

shabbatiscoming wrote:

No, its not judgement, its what some have learned, that jews in chul is sort of like a staging ground for the real deal with hashem.
I know I learned that once, with a very zioni teacher. It’s not meant as judgement, at least I dont think it is. I think it’s the way things are learned, and differently, as we see.

So why the need to share it on this thread?

amother

↑ Blue ↓

Sun, Jun 23 2024, 6:10 am

essie14 wrote:

Why do posters from ch"ul keeping putting us olim down by saying we don't love our parents? Or we are dysfunctional?

To make themselves feel better.

So sometimes, there is no ideal way to solve this. My mother is widowed, very old and living alone in a European country. My sister who lives there as well, is refusing to take care of her because they had some big quarrels. I'm in Israel with my dh and children. I can't uproot my family to go to back to a European country with no Jewish future and very little Jewish infrastructure, to look after my mom. It would make my children go otd and marry out almost for certain. I'm not a shaliach type like the Chabadnikim who can manage that situation and live in isolation and keep everyone frum regardless. I didn't grow up frum and it's difficult enough for me. My mom on the other hand won't come to live in Israel and she's probably right, she could never adapt to it and for her it would be like living on Mars.
There is no way to solve this and come out of it looking and feeling good. Sometimes, life's challenges just have no nice way out.

Dh has it better in that way. His dad made Aliyah in his eighties to be in Israel where all his children and grandchildren live.

amother

↑ Babypink ↓

Sun, Jun 23 2024, 6:12 am

WOAH it seems like my comment on page 3 has garnered a lot of very strong defensive reactions. I’d appreciate if many of you stop choosing to twist my words.

I never said that people who make Aliyah are dysfunctional. I said that specifically in MY circles, JPF/yeshivish lite, most of the people (NOT ALL) who make Aliyah have “issues”. My exact words were “not bad people, just atypical”. I gave an example of some people COMING from dysfunctional families so they have no close family ties keeping them in the US (I never said that they themselves are dysfunctional). I also gave examples of people having issues with schools, finances etc and hoping for a fresh start.

The fact of the matter is that mainstream “in town jpf/yeshivish” culture does NOT focus very strongly on making Aliyah and the importance of making Aliyah. They focus on love for Israel, on the desire for us all to live in Israel when mashiach comes. But the community as a whole doesn’t place a super strong emphasis on making Aliyah NOW. Therefore, YES, like it or not, it is NOT the “typical” families who are making Aliyah.

I’m not sure how you can argue with the fact that uprooting one’s entire family, moving away from your schools, language, culture, family, home, jobs, etc is NOT a radical act. At the end of the day, in general, typical healthy happy settled people don’t often undertake such radical acts. It’s an extreme act to leave behind your entire life and start new. Of course it beautiful but how can you argue it’s not extreme.

In some more modern orthodox communities the focus on Aliyah is stronger and more positive, and yes from those circles you do have totally “typical” families making Aliyah. All the above does not apply to those communities.

amother

↑ Outerspace ↓

Sun, Jun 23 2024, 6:14 am

shabbatiscoming wrote:

Please answer my question above- why the need to share it?

↑ essie14

Sun, Jun 23 2024, 6:14 am

amother Blue wrote:

That is so tough. 🫂🫂🫂🫂

amother

↑ Oldlace ↓

Sun, Jun 23 2024, 6:15 am

shabbatiscoming wrote:

Omg!!! Seriously?!?! U clearly need to relearn some stuff in life! This is absolutely false!

amother

↑ Outerspace ↓

Sun, Jun 23 2024, 6:16 am

amother Babypink wrote:

I’m sorry I wholeheartedly disagree. We are in an oot/yeshivish community. If I would hear of someone here making Aliyah I would be so in awe and marvel at their ability to do so. And hope that we can do the same one day. I wouldn’t think there is anything wrong except that we are Jews and ultimately we have only one home

amother

↑ Babypink ↓

Sun, Jun 23 2024, 6:19 am

amother Outerspace wrote:

I’m sorry I wholeheartedly disagree. We are in a hot/yeshivish community. If I would hear of someone here making Aliyah I would be so in awe and marvel at their ability to do so. And hope that we can do the same one day. I wouldn’t think there is anything wrong except that we are Jews and ultimately we have only one home

I never said that people in yeshivish circles “think” something is automatically wrong with families making Aliyah. In fact I would probably have the same reaction of awe as you if I heard of a family making Aliyah. I said that often it just IS atypical people making Aliyah. Do you personally know anyone from your yeshivish circles who made Aliyah? Are they completely totally typical?

amother

↑ Babypink ↓

Sun, Jun 23 2024, 6:23 am

amother Babypink wrote:

To add on, here is a summary of the types of people I personally know who made Aliyah from yeshivish circles:

1. Older singles
2. Young couples from dysfunctional families with no strong support system in the US
3. Families with an Israeli parent or a lot of Israeli family
4. A small amount of couples who “started off” in Israel as newlyweds and then decided to stay permanently (some totally typical!)

I don’t know ANY settled families with a few children who were happy with their life and jobs and schools who picked up and made Aliyah with the exception of example #3, families with parents who were Israeli, many were raised with hebrew speaking parents and have a lot of family in Israel.

↑ shabbatiscoming ↓

Sun, Jun 23 2024, 6:24 am

amother Oldlace wrote:

Omg!!! Seriously?!?! U clearly need to relearn some stuff in life! This is absolutely false!

Just because you didnt learn something it means it is false? I have to find the makor. It may take me some time, but I learned this a long time ago. Do I ever tell anyone this? No, but it is a thing, not false, just not something you learned. And thank you but no, I do not have to relearn things. Can't Believe It

↑ shabbatiscoming ↓

Sun, Jun 23 2024, 6:25 am

amother Babypink wrote:

But just because you dont know any does not mean there arent any. I know many such families.