Vent- who is getting the tzeddakah?

amother

Fri, Jun 21 2024, 2:14 am

Saw on another thread about their school not giving them help and they can't afford actual needs like socks.

I am in a similar situation. My shul collects purim, Pesach etc. They claim they give it to people in the community who need it. But even after asking for help, we got nothing. I have explained how our mandatory expenses outweigh our income. How we can't pay tuition at all, can't afford all my basic bills like rent, daycare, food... we get TS. It isn't easy to where I live. It isn't enough but at least we don't starve. We make a few thousand a year over government program qualifications but no way to not have the remaining income (its all or nothing).

I have a sneaking suspicion that they give it to the families in the kollel attached to our shul. And not to regular families as they make it sound. But they are living a better life than we do- they get WIC, SNAP, cheaper tuition, subsidized babysitting, and other community programs for kollel families. Even without family support. So the benefits outweigh the "extra" taxable income I make. Taxable. Yep. I pay taxes when they get "refunds" but it isn't a refund if they don't pay the federal tax "fund" to begin with.

Nothing I can do about it. But I wish people stop assuming kollel=poor and working=rich. And I wish we could get help.
Yeah there are people not making it on programs too. But not these people. They somehow have money for vacations, matching clothing for the kids... and then are shocked that my toddler doesn't have shabbos shoes. Or one kollel wife called to offer me her kids old/outdated hand me downs "because I clearly don't care about what's in style and fashion". She has no idea our financial state. She wanted to get rid of her daughters too small clothing and clean out her closet and figured I don't care, why not? (Her kid is younger and smaller than mine of that gender!). She just judged me. When I debated buying my kids a new pair of pants. And clearly she is able to afford the stylish in season clothes that she can laugh at my expense.

amother

Lemonlime

Fri, Jun 21 2024, 3:46 am

So quit your job and have your husband join a kollel. Life will be so much easier.

Maybe because I can't sleep so I'm just more irritable, but what's with all the kollel bashing?
You have a "sneaking suspicion"----no proof.
I'm sorry things are hard now, but organizations can choose who qualifies for tzedaka. I realize money is tight for a lot of people and life is hard, but that doesn't mean that you get to dictate everyone's tzedaka choice. Let's get rid of every organization in the frum world except for ones that pay people's tuition

LovesHashem

Fri, Jun 21 2024, 3:56 am

Elfrida wrote:

That's true, but here in Israel there isn't the crushing burden of tuition that makes things so much harder for people in America.

100%. Its more like food, rent, and basic clothing for a bigger family. Or in scenarios where someone is sick, someone lost their job, someone is stuck at a job that pays minimum wage, there's lots of reasons why a family could be struggling in Israel.

Here they don't receive money per say but credit cards that only work at the grocery store or basic clothing stores, and food/pantry boxes.

BaltoMom65

Fri, Jun 21 2024, 4:13 am

amother Lemonlime wrote:

I'm also an insomniac sometimes! But we need to start thinking that if everyone joined kollel or got on programs- who would be left to fund these things? I think op is just wondering how and why tzedaka is determined and feels that it should be revamped. No kollel bashing meant. Just the lack of discretion on the part of those doling out the charity

amother

Lemonlime

Fri, Jun 21 2024, 4:25 am

BaltoMom65 wrote:

Hope you can fall asleep soon. It doesn't pay for me because I have to work soon
But that's not the case anymore. When I got married long term kollel was forever. Now it's 5-7 years. Very few people are staying forever in kollel and not everyone is signing up. This and the other thread just seem to be bashing kollel. Most long term kollel people do not live how is described unless they have very rich parents. Govt programs (not that I take them) are open to everyone who qualifies People are entitled to give tzedaka where they please (within the bounds of halacha). Also, not everything is how it looks. Many people work very hard to sustain this lifestyle and even give tzedaka and full tuition. So saying everyone is a parasite is ridiculous.

Again if kollel is so easy, just sign up. Instead we have people bashing us.

amother

Mintgreen

Fri, Jun 21 2024, 6:58 am

amother Lemonlime wrote:

You’re getting defensive instead of listening to what OP is saying…

amother

Lemonlime

Fri, Jun 21 2024, 7:17 am

amother Mintgreen wrote:

You’re getting defensive instead of listening to what OP is saying…

If op just vented about not getting tzedaka, I could understand it and I would be much more sympathetic. Instead op said this:

I have a sneaking suspicion that they give it to the families in the kollel attached to our shul. And not to regular families as they make it sound. But they are living a better life than we do- they get WIC, SNAP, cheaper tuition, subsidized babysitting, and other community programs for kollel families. Even without family support. So the benefits outweigh the "extra" taxable income I make. Taxable. Yep. I pay taxes when they get "refunds" but it isn't a refund if they don't pay the federal tax "fund" to begin with.

Nothing I can do about it. But I wish people stop assuming kollel=poor and working=rich. And I wish we could get help.
Yeah there are people not making it on programs too. But not these people. They somehow have money for vacations, matching clothing for the kids... and then are shocked that my toddler doesn't have shabbos shoes. Or one kollel wife called to offer me her kids old/outdated hand me downs "because I clearly don't care about what's in style and fashion". She has no idea our financial state. She wanted to get rid of her daughters too small clothing and clean out her closet and figured I don't care, why not? (Her kid is younger and smaller than mine of that gender!). She just judged me. When I debated buying my kids a new pair of pants. And clearly she is able to afford the stylish in season clothes that she can laugh at my expense.

Puce said this
Totally agree with you, I find that so many kollel/ rebbe families have bought houses etc. while we the working class struggle.

In combo with the Lakewood thread, I felt the additional paragraph were not justified.

amother

Banana

Fri, Jun 21 2024, 9:17 am

There is truth to what the op said. Yet wasn't said in the right way. I hear what op means in her examples. She said if she needs clothing the help she could get is her kollel neighbor hand me downs. I know in my community their are times of year that kollel family get gift cards to a grocery store. If you don't belong to that category. You could apply for a food box. The food box consist of a large case of tuna. A million dozen eggs and frozen chicken. What's if you have picky eaters in your family and it's just the 2 adults that like tuna. What's if you give the person a year's supply of chicken and eggs, but they can't afford a bigger/extra freezer. Everyone wants there life in a beloved way.

It's a complex issue but I see two point to think about.

Being the working middle class is like being white. It's like the most of us the most common. It doesn't get it own group of support . Their is now way to vouch who is actually struggling.No one to look out for them. Kollel people belong to "kollel group" Torah umasorah looked after the teachers and got them raises. -it was part of the cause of tuition spike. I know of lots of places that give discounts to kollel/rebbe/teacher. Nothing wrong with it they have groups that care for them. Some feel they don't have where to turn. Hashem of course.

Some that belong to the kollel family it comes with a good name, "kollel family" for that reason they may get extra help from parent looked good in community. For some working struggling families it comes with its own shame. "I'm getting money but I'm not making it like some others. I maje money and still can't put food on my table. It hurts more when neighbors gets what seems like kollel rewards from all sides.

I don't have a solution for either problem. But I think an honest way to figure some of the community help is for teachers and rebbeim to look out. It's easy for a person to put on old clothing and cry they need a tuition break. As a former teacher. I don't judge. I know their is more that meets the eyes. Sometimes it's very clear to see from teaching kids for months every single day. Because most parent don't send their children to school on purpose poor and lacking.

amother

Firebrick

Fri, Jun 21 2024, 9:25 am

This is like the tenth kollel bashing thread since before pesach. And it the same claims over and over again. It’s like that film Groundhog Day. What’s up with Imamother?

My son tells me that when they put out boxes of old rolls, expiring cakes, and assorted items past the due date from one of the local stores outside of BMG instead of throwing them out there is a huge crowd of kollel guys taking home all this stuff that I wouldn’t touch, apparently because it’s a treat for the kids that they can’t afford to buy fresh….

Chayalle

Fri, Jun 21 2024, 9:30 am

amother Lemonlime wrote:

I'm a Kollel wife of many years, but I grew up like OP describes. My family was the middle class - no government programs, higher tuitions because the school needed to save the discounts for the Kollel families, whose kids all came to the shul we davened in wearing the newest brand new clothes from the frum stores while we wore hand-me-downs.

I've seen both sides. I don't think we should get rid of any organizations, but I do think that people don't understand the struggle of the middle-class non-Kollel JPF population.

amother

Pansy

Fri, Jun 21 2024, 9:33 am

Chayalle wrote:

This exactly. I don't think ppl are against kollel. They just want to be understood and helped too.

amother

Oatmeal

Fri, Jun 21 2024, 9:34 am

amother Firebrick wrote:

I think there is a lot of stress and resentment and I really think the rabbanim need to be aware, are any rabbanim actually addressing it? when a large portion of the community feels uncared about its poisonous for the whole community