Tuition Breaks and Tomchei Shabbos

amother

↑ Green ↓

Tue, May 14 2024, 11:44 am

amother Eggplant wrote:

Really? How did you get this logic? You find that the fact that they want the credit card means they want to see your victoria secret charge? Is it possible they want to see the charge for $15000 for the airline tix and hotel stay in Thailand?

They can see that from the bank records too. Assuming they paid the bill, there would the $15k payment in their bank records.

amother

↑ Bronze ↓

Tue, May 14 2024, 11:44 am

chestnut wrote:

Do you really think schools are interested in your therapy, Dr, and mikvah spending?

Even if they are not interested in it, they still don't have a right to access that information and take away every shred of privacy.

Cheiny ↓

Tue, May 14 2024, 11:45 am

amother OP wrote:

If my monthly credit card bill is $4k and I show them that piece. And I say its medical, food, clothing, car insurance, gas, utilities, filters, phones, toiletries and therapy. For a family of 7.
Why do they need a line by line.
Where are my hiding luxuries within that 4k number?
Asking for more than a basic breakdown was agreed to be humiliating on the other thread, yet shrugged at
Even Tomchei Shabbos doesn't ask for that.

I think we can all agree that there are many people who can afford tuition yet they ask for and many times are getting tuition breaks. Yes?

So with that in mind, do you believe that despite that, yeshivas should just automatically hand out tuition breaks without asking for any kind of proof of need, in order to save people from the embarrassment you’re pointing to?

Do you think they should require no proof of need? Or can you understand that in order for the Yeshiva to be able to continue to function, they must at least try to limit their tuition breaks to those whom they can ascertain are truly in need while rooting out those who are trying to take advantage?

What is your solution as to how the Yeshiva can handle this complex problem?

Last edited by Cheiny on Tue, May 14 2024, 1:22 pm; edited 1 time in total

amother

↑ Chambray ↓

Tue, May 14 2024, 11:48 am

Obviously no one can go through each purchase but they’ll notice patterns and if you spend 200 or 500 on a couple pairs of shoes that’s normal

But they’ll notice the few hundreds on restaurants or vacations or a fancy shopping spree, spa treatments extras!

Not medical dental, car repairs or anything like therapy

They know what they’re looking for and it’s not fool proof.

↑ Cheiny ↓

Tue, May 14 2024, 11:49 am

amother Bronze wrote:

I said this on the other thread and I'll say it again.

The vast majority of people asking for tuition breaks really really need it. This claim that "everyone is asking for breaks while living the high life" isn't true IRL

I look around and those of us in the under 35 crowd are struggling to much.
Renting tiny apartments with no hope of every buying our own house, even a small old one. Dressing our kids in hand me downs and buying cheap from target. Driving old cars (mine is 16 years old). Using cheap used baby equipment (my graco car snap n go car seat is almost 10 years old). Serving cheap pasta during the week and chicken only on shabbos.

The people I know who spend on luxuries do NOT ask for breaks and consider it beneath them and demeaning to even fill out the scholarship application.

I don’t think you can make these generalizations that mostly no one is taking advantage, based just on whom you know. I know there are plenty of people who do indeed get breaks and they can certainly do without them, but they choose to prioritize maintaining their high lifestyle over paying full tuition.

It really is unfortunate for those who are truly needy and deserve the breaks. Those who take advantage make it bad for the rest. But Hashem sees all. The yeshivas aren’t fully equipped to always be able to weed out those who aren’t needy or deserving, from those who are…

↑ Cheiny ↓

Tue, May 14 2024, 11:50 am

amother Green wrote:

Well, it seems like it. They can go about this in a different way, I.e. ask for bank records, but are choosing to go after credit cards.

This suggests they are after these little details.

That doesn’t make any sense from the perspective of the yeshivas.

amother

↑ Eggplant ↓

Tue, May 14 2024, 11:53 am

amother OP wrote:

So they can just ask for the totals. And only ask for line by line if a month seems off beyond what's typical for a family.
But if a family has average bills 4-6k with 7-8k for October, April and July that just indicates regular spending spiking for yomim tovim and summer/(day camp) expenses.
Asking for line by line indicates that yes, they want to know how much exactly I spent for medical expenses and they might audit my Walmart expenses

They were asking for those totals. We're going in a circle.

The old system had parents fill out an application where the schools *asked*:

Did you go on any vacations? How many and at what cost?
Did you do any home improvement for more than $3000? What was it?
Did you buy anything for more than $2500? What was it?
Did you make a simcha? What type, where and for how much?

The schools felt this system didn't work. And now they're doing it this way. And guess what? Aid applications are way down.

I'm blown away that you really think the schools want to see your walmart charge.

amother

↑ Eggplant ↓

Tue, May 14 2024, 11:54 am

amother Bronze wrote:

Even if they are not interested in it, they still don't have a right to access that information and take away every shred of privacy.

I hear this. I hear both sides.

I don't think many here understand the schools side at all.

↑ Cheiny ↓

Tue, May 14 2024, 11:54 am

amother OP wrote:

So they can just ask for the totals.

And knowing that some people unfortunately aren’t honest, and take advantage by taking breaks when they shouldn’t be getting them, how can the yeshivas just ask for totals and be able to trust they’re getting the truth?

amother

↑ Eggplant ↓

Tue, May 14 2024, 11:58 am

Cheiny wrote:

I don't think many here are getting it. I can be DLZ and assume that they are all so honest that they can't grasp the possibility that people were taking advantage.

This is an invasive but effective system. I'm not sure how I feel about it.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Tue, May 14 2024, 12:05 pm

amother Chambray wrote:

Also an Dishonesty issue

Seems everything boils down to honesty
Shidduch, school tuition

The real need tuition breaks will get it no worries just those who are playing games won’t as easily.

Are you sure?
Because I don't get the breaks that I NEED. I told the school im getting Tomchei. I haven't gone on any vacation, bought a shaitels or a new car in years
They said too bad, cut costs.
I said where?
They demanded my credit card line by line and told me that if I cut Walmart $15 a week, groceries $50 a week, that $260 a month tuition.
And I should skip therapy to twice a month not 4 times a month and now there's an extra $400 a month. No need for a break.

Im not the only one who have had these experiences.

amother

↑ Eggplant ↓

Tue, May 14 2024, 12:08 pm

amother OP wrote:

So Plz realize that tuition breaks vary from school to school. This isn't a government program where if you meet criteria X, Y, and Z, you qualify.

In a school the staff and bills must be paid. It sounds like you fully deserve to qualify but don't not because they are being mean and unfair, but because the school can't afford it.

Schools that give breaks more easy aren't necessarily more generous. They just might be richer.

amother

↑ Chambray ↓

Tue, May 14 2024, 12:08 pm

amother OP wrote:

Oy I’m so sorry that’s horrible!

Speak with someone on the board they’ll help you get the break you deserve

↑ Cheiny ↓

Tue, May 14 2024, 12:11 pm

amother OP wrote:

Then Perhaps that Yeshiva isn’t the right one for your family.

amother

Cantaloupe ↓

Tue, May 14 2024, 12:14 pm

amother Eggplant wrote:

No, but there's no way to show monthly bank records without the line by line itemization? They can't just see x amount come in and x amount go out and make the cheshbon that clearly there is no massive spending going on?

amother

↑ Bronze ↓

Tue, May 14 2024, 12:21 pm

amother Chambray wrote:

Also an Dishonesty issue

Seems everything boils down to honesty
Shidduch, school tuition

The real need tuition breaks will get it no worries just those who are playing games won’t as easily.

Wow you are really clueless. No we do not get it "no worries."

I was told by my kid's school that I should fundraise from family. I told them my family is poor (my parents always struggled, married me off with hachnasas kallah, and my siblings are all struggling young couples like me).
So the school told me to find an older single and ask them for their maaser.

And yes I really need the break. I live ln a tiny apartment. My wig is 10 years old and you can see the cap because most of the hair has come out at this point. Car is 16 years old. Graco snap n go is 10 year old (and yes I know it's expired and not safe). Clothing is hand me down or target. Chicken only on shabbos and even then it's 1 drumstick per person. I don't buy fruits/veggies except 2 potatoes for the cholent. And obviously no cleaning help or vacation

amother

↑ Bronze ↓

Tue, May 14 2024, 12:23 pm

amother Chambray wrote:

Oy I’m so sorry that’s horrible!

Speak with someone on the board they’ll help you get the break you deserve

The board is made up of wealthy hot shot ba'al gaavahs who live in an ivory tower and have no clue what life is like for the rest of us. They're definitely not getting involved or helping.

amother

Azalea

Tue, May 14 2024, 12:25 pm

amother Bronze wrote:

Srry you're experiencing this. I wish I could help you!

Just to note, in many communities there are sheital gemachs where you can get one for free. (I wore my first sheital for 9 years)