Should teenagers be charging friends?

↑ DVOM ↓

Thu, Feb 08 2024, 10:19 pm

amother OP wrote:

Ok, so let's change the example. Every Thursday night Dh drives up to the bungalow colony. He takes several friends with him who are in the same colony. He's friends with these guys. There will be around 10 of these trips during the summer.

I'd say it's pretty tacky if dh charges these friends let's say half an uber price and tries to make a buck off them. It's not my world. But I respect that people view the world differently.

Yes, an adult who has a real job and a normal income would typically not charge his friends for a weekly ride. He might not even accept gas and tolls money.

But if someone is being asked to be compensated for a service they're providing, particularly a teen who probably doesn't have a steady income and earns their pocket money through whatever odd jobs they can pull together, I wouldn't find it strange, and I wouldn't resent the cost.

My view of the world is that I would like to provide favors when I can with a full and open heart, but not to expect favors from others. Certainly not to expect free services from a kid trying to make a buck.

↑ ittsamother ↓

Thu, Feb 08 2024, 10:20 pm

amother Papaya wrote:

So if I, as your friend, asked you to stay in your home every day from 9-5 when you aren't there anyways and work from there and I'd pay for utilities and nothing else, you'd think that's fair?
And if you don't want to you'd be considered a bad friend?

I mean, if I weren't home all day, and my good friend told me, "I just need to sit at a quiet desk all day so I can work on my laptop, I can't do it from home cuz I have no wifi/cuz the kids and babysitter are too loud/cuz my neighbor in the apt next door plays pounding music all day", yeah, I would probably tell her she can sit in my home office as long as she needs every day, why do I care if I'm not there and it makes no difference to me. And if she were to tell me that she'll pay for the electricity she's using, I'd be even more than fine with it. I definitely wouldn't start charging her costs like those commercial offices you can rent! If she were either just a random neighbor or acquaintance, then maybe I'd look at it as a money-making opportunity like renting out my garage. (On that note, if a good friend who has no garage asked me if she could store a big piece of furniture in my garage for a year until she moves, I'd gladly tell her yes and I wouldn't think of charging her for it! But that's a tangent.)

Now if my good friend wanted to take over my whole house each day when I'm not there, I don't consider that on the same level at all. (I feel like that would be on par with the boys asking the driver to start adding in extra stops all over the place, like Walmart and the pharmacy and target etc. But doesn't sound like they're doing it.)

amother

↑ Mulberry ↓

Thu, Feb 08 2024, 10:21 pm

amother Papaya wrote:

True. So change my question to me and my team working from your house daily when you're not home anyways.

A team of people- more likely to leave a mess, less likely to take responsibility because it’s a group of people, more noisy, more of a need to stop (someone needs bathroom) etc.

amother

↑ Papaya ↓

Thu, Feb 08 2024, 10:23 pm

ittsamother wrote:

That would be very kind of you to agree.
To my second question, would that make you a bad friend if you didn't?

amother

↑ Papaya ↓

Thu, Feb 08 2024, 10:24 pm

ittsamother wrote:

Now if my good friend wanted to take over my whole house each day when I'm not there, I don't consider that on the same level at all. (I feel like that would be on par with the boys asking the driver to start adding in extra stops all over the place, like Walmart and the pharmacy and target etc. But doesn't sound like they're doing it.)

But why?? You aren't using those other rooms at those times anyway?!

I disagree with your Mashal, asking to add stops can be comparable to asking you to leave them lunch on the table for their work office in your home
It requires an actual action

↑ ittsamother ↓

Thu, Feb 08 2024, 10:54 pm

amother Papaya wrote:

Because the risk I am taking by opening a whole house to someone is way way larger than the risk someone is taking by allowing someone to sit in the car with them.

How far would you like to take this analogy?? Should we say "Why won't you open up the entire Buckingham Palace to your friend if you're anyway not being there?!"

Cuz I can take it the other way too. Imagine I say the whole Tehillim once a week, having my sister in mind for a shidduch. If my good friend calls me up and asks, "Would you mind having my sister in mind for a shidduch too while you're at it," should I turn back to her and say "only if you pay me for my time of saying Tehillim, you know it takes me a while!"

I think the equivalent of a bachur allowing his good friends, also bachurim, sit in his car with him when it's going somewhere anyway, is the equivalent of me, an adult, letting my good friends, also adults, sit in my office when I'm not using it anyway. If they wanted to bring in a bunch of lil kids, or start using the whole house, or start asking me to provide lunch, are all factors that would change the story, so that's why I'm not going there. That is no longer equivalent.

↑ ittsamother ↓

Thu, Feb 08 2024, 10:57 pm

amother Papaya wrote:

That would be very kind of you to agree.
To my second question, would that make you a bad friend if you didn't?

If my good friend needed something of me, that barely requires any additional effort of me, and is offering to pay towards the costs I'm anyway incurring, then yes, I would feel like a bad friend to not do it for them. Clearly this is entirely subjective, and depends on how you were raised to view friendship and what we do for others.

As an example, we currently have a friend storing something quite large by us, taking up some of our space, incurring interesting comments by others who see it, and sometimes requiring effort on our part to maintain it. We'll be happy when it goes. We would never DREAM of charging them for storing it one bit. Cuz they're a good friend and we have an easy way to make their life easier.

amother

↑ Mulberry

Thu, Feb 08 2024, 11:21 pm

ittsamother wrote:

I don’t think it’s the same as the tehillim example.

This guy has a huge responsibility on his shoulders. What if there is a car crash chas Vishalom? Ultimately as the one driving he’s responsible for all these guys. What if he gets a flat tire, who’s changing that? What if he goes over a bump and one of the guys hurt himself?

Also there is more tircha when driving people (besides for the burden of responsibility). What about noise, mess, bathroom stops? When you say tehillim and add another name there is very little tircha.

And again, also, it’s different when it’s one vs a whole group

frumama

Thu, Feb 08 2024, 11:34 pm

It wouldn't sit well with me either. But, I'm wondering if there is something more going on here. Is the driver, perhapse feeling taken advantage of. Are the boys showing proper appreciation on a regular basis? Is it possible the amount the boys are contributing to expenses does not actually cover expenses? Is their attitude , well, he's going anyway so what's the big deal and if we weren't coming he'd have to pay for everything himself so we're doing him a favor. If he's feeling like he's being treated as a driver who owes them a ride, and not as a friend who is doing them a favor, that might be causing resentment to start building up to the point he no longer feels like doing favors anymore. I can't know if this is the case, but it's something your son and his friends can ask themselves.

GLUE

Thu, Feb 08 2024, 11:35 pm

All I can say is that in all my life of driving carpool, there are people who felt that I should give them a ride for no charge because I am going there anyway.

Reading this brings back so very not good memories of driving people to and from places. I used to live in City A and work in City B and many people who worked or went to school in City B would go with me, many on a regular base. There where some who where very grateful that I was taking them & others that felt what the big deal I am going anyways.

It is a Chessed that the boy is driving your son home even if he chargers for it, it is still a Chessed. Do you drive? I found the biggest people who felt that it's not such a big deal did not drive.

↑ ittsamother ↓

Thu, Feb 08 2024, 11:51 pm

amother Mulberry wrote:

No, that was exactly my point. I felt comparing letting people use a room or two in your house was more comparable to this than saying you'd have to allow your whole house, so I was saying, would you count the Tehillim example as comparable? No, the amount you're giving there is way less. And opening a whole castle to someone is way too much. I was using it as an example to say not everything is comparable.

↑ ittsamother ↓

Thu, Feb 08 2024, 11:55 pm

frumama wrote:

I definitely agree with this. I was also wondering if behind the scenes resentment has been building up and that's why he's making this switch. I definitely agree that he has been doing a favor and it's incumbent upon the recipients to show proper gratitude for the favor, and make it clear that they understand that he's doing them a favor and they are looking to not make it more annoying for him than if they weren't there. And that's also why I suggested they make a counteroffer where they offer more than they have been paying previously.
I think you're very much on the money with this take.

amother

Mint

Fri, Feb 09 2024, 12:07 am

Giving somebody a ride one time is a favor but if they start relying on you to do them this favor every time, you start feeling taken advantaged of.
When the weather is nice I watch my children outdoors. If my neighbor asks me to watch her kid one day, I'm ok with it but if she brings me her kids every time I go out she is taking advantage and I would not like it.

amother

↑ Black ↓

Fri, Feb 09 2024, 8:16 am

I think just fuel and tolls is not enough, you have also to count in the car as such, wear and tear, insurance... and if there is a little something for the driver, it would be appreciated.

Pity that the passengers do not have the natural generosity to keep all this in mind. Many do not want to contribute at all, others just the bare minimum, and some even are outraged when they are remineded of those other costs...

seeker

Fri, Feb 09 2024, 8:30 am

amother Black wrote:

They're teenagers. I didn't think about any of this stuff when I was a teenager without my own car (wear and tear etc)

I think it depends whether the person asking this question ("is it nice") is the driver or passenger.

If it's the passenger, I'd say it was extremely nice that he took you until now, if you didn't then you should have offered tokens of appreciation (either cash or similar like Amazon or Visa gift card), and it's his right to charge - if it's too much for you, say "I respect your needs in this, but I'm able to afford $__. Can we work that out?"

If it's the driver asking, I'd say it's not terrible but not "nice" either, and if he does still want to start charging, it should be significantly less than Uber costs to maintain some friendliness. It's also awkward to start it after having driven the same route for free until now - he should either start the next school year, or explain if there's some circumstance that triggered this (e.g. he noticed that it's been harder on him than he thought, rather than he noticed he could be making bucks where he wasn't)

Reality ↓

Fri, Feb 09 2024, 8:47 am

I think either one of two things happened here:

1. The driver has started to feel taken advantage of. Are the boys making him be their chauffeur, dropping them off at different places, making him wait for them, making jokes about him being "their" driver etc. He may feel like if he's being treated like an Uber driver he may as well get paid!

2. He needs the money. Either because he is saving up for something important to him or his parents have stopped paying for somethings they used to pay for. And he thinks this is an instant business for himself.

Quite frankly, if the boys and their moms are this upset about it, it is quite obvious you have all been using him and are just upset the gravy train has ended. Now that your cheap and convenient ride has ended, you'll have to either pay market price or gulp, actually carpool and take the time to drive your own kids.