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-> Parenting our children
-> Teenagers and Older children
amother
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 Thu, Feb 08 2024, 9:46 pm
| amother OP wrote: | | This is basically what I'm asking. I want to know if it's a nice thing to do. Nobody is saying he's not allowed to charge. Of course he is. But is it a nice thing to charge friends and make a profit off them? |
No. It's not nice. He may lose friends honestly.
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amother
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Thu, Feb 08 2024, 9:48 pm
| amother OP wrote: | | This is basically what I'm asking. I want to know if it's a nice thing to do. Nobody is saying he's not allowed to charge. Of course he is. But is it a nice thing to charge friends and make a profit off them? |
So where is the line on when a service business is "nice" and when it's not? Why can't he make money for providing a service, just because you would prefer to have it for free? If this boy wasn't driving what would you do?
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ittsamother
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Thu, Feb 08 2024, 9:48 pm
| amother OP wrote: | | This is basically what I'm asking. I want to know if it's a nice thing to do. Nobody is saying he's not allowed to charge. Of course he is. But is it a nice thing to charge friends and make a profit off them? |
Can the boys all get together, come up with an amount that's a lil more than gas money but less than Uber prices, and present it to the driver as what they're willing to pay? Like a counteroffer. And then he can decide if he's willing to take their offer or lose their "business".
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amother
Ballota
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Thu, Feb 08 2024, 9:49 pm
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I think he's taking advantage of the fact that they have no other way home and it's not nice and money hungry. He can charge to split the gas and tolls but it's not nice to actually make a profit on his friends in this situation. I would never let me son charge for profit to drive friends home from yeshiva
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ittsamother
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Thu, Feb 08 2024, 9:50 pm
Yes, honestly if I were one of the boys, I would probably not be able to look at him the same. I might pay his rate, but feel colder towards him, like he's a service I pay for, not a friend I like to spend time with, or I might decide that for that money I'd rather get a nice comfortable Uber that will take me right to my door most efficiently.
That's why I think the idea of a counteroffer might satisfy both parties.
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amother
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Thu, Feb 08 2024, 9:51 pm
| amother Chambray wrote: | The difference is if it's a regular thing or not. As a one-time thing, most people wouldn't charge. But frankly, if he's doing it every week, it's the other boys who are taking advantage of him.
Would you drive your neighbor's kid to school every day because you're going anyways? Or would you set up a carpool or charge for your effort? As an occasional thing, people will do the favor. But not on a regular basis. |
Ok, so let's change the example. Every Thursday night Dh drives up to the bungalow colony. He takes several friends with him who are in the same colony. He's friends with these guys. There will be around 10 of these trips during the summer.
I'd say it's pretty tacky if dh charges these friends let's say half an uber price and tries to make a buck off them. It's not my world. But I respect that people view the world differently.
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amother
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Thu, Feb 08 2024, 9:52 pm
| ittsamother wrote: | I mean, if a good friend was going away for a week, and for some reason I needed somewhere to live for a week, and I asked her if I could stay in her house and she said yeah but you're going to have to pay me the same amount you'd pay a hotel, I'd be shocked and think less of my friend, for sure.
But either way this is so not a good analogy. It's a lot, to hand over your house and access to everything in it, to someone else. What if they have wild kids, what if they make a mess, what if they break things, what if they peek into areas that you don't want them to go... It's way different to let them just sit in your car for a couple hours, for heaven's sake.
Here are the levels I can think of:
Really, really nice: "Hey, I'm going anyway, it makes no difference to me if you come along or not, meet me out front each time at 12 pm"
Nice: "Hey, I'm going anyway, makes no difference to me if you come or not, but I could use some money towards the gas and tolls if you could chip in for that, but if not, I understand"
Normal: "Sure, I can take you, but make sure to send me your share for the gas and tolls, it's expensive!"
Capitalistic: "Yes, I'll take you, and let me calculate what is the most profit I could make off of you while I'm at it.
Everyone can view the world differently. I wouldn't look to make a profit off my friend over something I'd be doing anyway and is not requiring anything extra off me, but if that's the way this guy's brain works, great for him! |
Giving rides always requires extra.
I gave a local ride to an event for a friend who doesn’t drive the other night. It required back and forth to keep her updated when I was going to leave which which was a bit stressful for me, waiting to make sure she was ready when I finally was, stopping to pick her up and then finding her at the event before I left because I couldn’t leave without her. Was this a big deal, of course not, it was a one time thing and I was happy to help but it’s WAY easier to be on my own schedule and if this was a regular thing and a bigger drive I would absoloutely feel taken advantage of if all I was offered was token money towards gas and tolls.
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ittsamother
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Thu, Feb 08 2024, 9:53 pm
| amother DarkViolet wrote: | | ittsamother, I am nodding along with each of your posts. You saved me the tircha of putting it into words lol |
Please pay me the going rate for a copywriter, then, I'll give you an email address you can quickpay me at!
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amother
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Thu, Feb 08 2024, 9:54 pm
A person is only nice/can only be your friend if he does something without charging you?
Maybe he’s the one feeling like he doesn’t want to be friends with these guys who take advantage
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chestnut
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Thu, Feb 08 2024, 9:54 pm
| amother Cinnamon wrote: | Giving rides always requires extra.
I gave a local ride to an event for a friend who doesn’t drive the other night. It required back and forth to keep her updated when I was going to leave which which was a bit stressful for me, waiting to make sure she was ready when I finally was, stopping to pick her up and then finding her at the event before I left because I couldn’t leave without her. Was this a big deal, of course not, it was a one time thing and I was happy to help but it’s WAY easier to be on my own schedule and if this was a regular thing and a bigger drive I would absoloutely feel taken advantage of if all I was offered was token money towards gas and tolls. |
I'm sure it's not the same effort with these boys from the same yeshiva.
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BetsyTacy
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Thu, Feb 08 2024, 9:57 pm
| amother OP wrote: | Ok, so let's change the example. Every Thursday night Dh drives up to the bungalow colony. He takes several friends with him who are in the same colony. He's friends with these guys. There will be around 10 of these trips during the summer.
I'd say it's pretty tacky if dh charges these friends let's say half an uber price and tries to make a buck off them. It's not my world. But I respect that people view the world differently. |
It's often understood that older teenagers/young twenties who are in school and don't have as many money making opportunities will charge for things even amongst friends and relatives that adults with real jobs would do as a chesed.
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amother
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Thu, Feb 08 2024, 9:59 pm
| ittsamother wrote: | Yes, honestly if I were one of the boys, I would probably not be able to look at him the same. I might pay his rate, but feel colder towards him, like he's a service I pay for, not a friend I like to spend time with, or I might decide that for that money I'd rather get a nice comfortable Uber that will take me right to my door most efficiently.
That's why I think the idea of a counteroffer might satisfy both parties. |
Most Ubers are not that comfortable, you are sitting in a strangers car that can have smells, be playing music you don’t want to listen to, have a driver who isn’t a very good driver, etc.
And for long drives especially, it’s not very easy to find a driver. Depending on the city, it can take a while for an Uber to come, but on top of that they can also decline a ride if they see it’s pretty far (which has happened to me multiple times)
I don’t think he’s doing anything wrong, I think he probably feels taken advantage of that he’s always the one driving his friends back and forth. Having them chip in for gas and tolls doesn’t really do much, he is still doing all the work, always on his own. Nobody else drives, he never just gets to relax and enjoy the ride like they do. Whether or not he does it anyways has no bearing (also for all OP knows, he may not be doing it anyways. He may choose to go somewhere closer for shabbos, or rearrange his schedule, but feels a sense of obligation since his friends are always counting on him for a ride)
Either way, it’s fair. It may not be him going out of his way to be nice, but he isn’t going out of his way to be rude either. It’s a fair and reasonable expectation, and like many others said- if OP doesn’t like it then she can make alternate arrangements.
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amother
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Thu, Feb 08 2024, 10:01 pm
OP is the Bochur taking the responsibility of providing the ride upon himself? That means he needs to make sure everything is fine with car, coordinate etc
And deal with the situation if something doesn't work out
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amother
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Thu, Feb 08 2024, 10:04 pm
| ittsamother wrote: | I mean, if a good friend was going away for a week, and for some reason I needed somewhere to live for a week, and I asked her if I could stay in her house and she said yeah but you're going to have to pay me the same amount you'd pay a hotel, I'd be shocked and think less of my friend, for sure.
But either way this is so not a good analogy. It's a lot, to hand over your house and access to everything in it, to someone else. What if they have wild kids, what if they make a mess, what if they break things, what if they peek into areas that you don't want them to go... It's way different to let them just sit in your car for a couple hours, for heaven's sake.
Here are the levels I can think of:
Really, really nice: "Hey, I'm going anyway, it makes no difference to me if you come along or not, meet me out front each time at 12 pm"
Nice: "Hey, I'm going anyway, makes no difference to me if you come or not, but I could use some money towards the gas and tolls if you could chip in for that, but if not, I understand"
Normal: "Sure, I can take you, but make sure to send me your share for the gas and tolls, it's expensive!"
Capitalistic: "Yes, I'll take you, and let me calculate what is the most profit I could make off of you while I'm at it.
Everyone can view the world differently. I wouldn't look to make a profit off my friend over something I'd be doing anyway and is not requiring anything extra off me, but if that's the way this guy's brain works, great for him! |
So if I, as your friend, asked you to stay in your home every day from 9-5 when you aren't there anyways and work from there and I'd pay for utilities and nothing else, you'd think that's fair?
And if you don't want to you'd be considered a bad friend?
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amother
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Thu, Feb 08 2024, 10:04 pm
It is well within his right.
On the other hand, it does feel yucky.
No different Than a 16 yo girl who is good with a curling wand charging her good friend to do makeup for her sister’s engagement party.
In my opinion (and my child catches rides to and from university with friends) the should be chipping in much more than gas and tolls.
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amother
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Thu, Feb 08 2024, 10:07 pm
| amother OP wrote: | Ok, so let's change the example. Every Thursday night Dh drives up to the bungalow colony. He takes several friends with him who are in the same colony. He's friends with these guys. There will be around 10 of these trips during the summer.
I'd say it's pretty tacky if dh charges these friends let's say half an uber price and tries to make a buck off them. It's not my world. But I respect that people view the world differently. |
It’s tacky because he is an adult who works full time and earns a regular income. Unless he is desperate for the money, in which case I doubt his friends would find it tacky and instead be very happy to be able to help him out.
It isn’t remotely the same as a yeshiva teen who has no source of income, and very likely has expenses
If your DH was friends with all these guys, but his job was actually driving people around, would they find it weird that he would charge them? Probably not.
And personally I would never continuously take a ride from someone without paying them for their troubles. I don’t just mean gas and tolls, but also something extra for the actual work they are doing. I would be embarrassed not to, and would think they felt I was taking advantage of them 1000%
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amother
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Thu, Feb 08 2024, 10:08 pm
Wow, this is getting out of hand, as per usual. 😉
I do see why it would feel weird given that they are friends, and going back and forth ANYWAY.
BUT, I don't think he has malicious intent, OR that he's being cold. I think he's just trying to make some extra cash, and while brainstorming this is what he came up with, since he's doing it anyway, and doesn't have time or anyway of doing anything else.
You are comparing adult stuff to kids, not the same thing because adults can find other work outside of charging friends.
What's a yeshiva Bachur gonna do?
I'm not saying if this was my friend I wouldn't feel uncomfortable, just saying I see his side too.
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amother
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Thu, Feb 08 2024, 10:11 pm
| amother Papaya wrote: | So if I, as your friend, asked you to stay in your home every day from 9-5 when you aren't there anyways and work from there and I'd pay for utilities and nothing else, you'd think that's fair?
And if you don't want to you'd be considered a bad friend? |
Also we aren’t talking about one friend here. This is a group of people.
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amother
Whitewash
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Thu, Feb 08 2024, 10:12 pm
| amother Ballota wrote: | | I think he's taking advantage of the fact that they have no other way home and it's not nice and money hungry. He can charge to split the gas and tolls but it's not nice to actually make a profit on his friends in this situation. I would never let me son charge for profit to drive friends home from yeshiva |
You’re being judgmental. You don’t know his personal situation.
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amother
Razzmatazz
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Thu, Feb 08 2024, 10:16 pm
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I didn’t read the whole thread. We live in LA. My sons used to drive to the valley from Los Angeles to high school and took younger boys who didn’t get a license yes. They charged them money but not like Uber. It was monthly and was more than the gas but not super expensive
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