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-> Israel related Inquiries & Aliyah Questions
amother
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 Mon, Nov 20 2023, 9:24 pm
We did and were told better to move to EY than the tri-state area at this point.
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amother
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Mon, Nov 20 2023, 9:43 pm
| amother Arcticblue wrote: | | My concern was this is not just an athletic kid. It sounds like he is a kid who has kind of floated through elementary school in the US and succeeded socially/emotionally because he is good at sports. Meaning it was a substitute for learning well. That I think does not exist for chareidim here EXCEPT in schools with an American culture. (That's my impression based on the first post. I could be off.) |
Yes—excelling at sports gives him tremendous confidence since he struggles in the classroom and knows it. I wouldn’t say he’s “floated through elementary school,” though. He’s in 4th grade and works hard.
Maybe if enough families with kids who don’t fit perfectly in the Chareidi “box” move to EY, we will see more acceptance of those who have different needs and strengths.
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amother
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Tue, Nov 21 2023, 12:42 am
| amother OP wrote: | Yes—excelling at sports gives him tremendous confidence since he struggles in the classroom and knows it. I wouldn’t say he’s “floated through elementary school,” though. He’s in 4th grade and works hard.
Maybe if enough families with kids who don’t fit perfectly in the Chareidi “box” move to EY, we will see more acceptance of those who have different needs and strengths. |
The rabbanim are very against that here. They believe that's bringing down the kedusha and standards of eretz Yisroel.
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Rappel
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Tue, Nov 21 2023, 12:48 am
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Is Torani an option for your family, or only haredi?
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amother
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Tue, Nov 21 2023, 12:59 am
I hear.
I’m not advocating that parents encourage their kids to play football instead of chazering Gemara (although I do think playing sports occasionally and getting exercise is a healthy outlet).
I am promoting the idea that not all boys can sit and learn all day and the ones who can’t shouldn’t be made to feel like nebachs. People excel in different areas.
Yes, limud haTorah is primary and always will be, but it’s time for additional options, so that our children can feel good about themselves, I.e. chesed-oriented activities, learning a trade, etc… With a game of baseball thrown in (pun intended) every now and then.
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amother
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Tue, Nov 21 2023, 1:03 am
| Rappel wrote: | | Is Torani an option for your family, or only haredi? |
Chareidi, but open, in terms of welcoming to all types and kiruv-oriented.
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amother
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Tue, Nov 21 2023, 1:22 am
| amother OP wrote: | I hear.
I’m not advocating that parents encourage their kids to play football instead of chazering Gemara (although I do think playing sports occasionally and getting exercise is a healthy outlet).
I am promoting the idea that not all boys can sit and learn all day and the ones who can’t shouldn’t be made to feel like nebachs. People excel in different areas.
Yes, limud haTorah is primary and always will be, but it’s time for additional options, so that our children can feel good about themselves, I.e. chesed-oriented activities, learning a trade, etc… With a game of baseball thrown in (pun intended) every now and then. |
The additional options are slowly coming in but it's taking time. They do play ball but it isn't central so a kid won't feel that being good at sports compensates for struggling in the classroom, it's just an outlet.
Having brought up a bunch of boys here, your big problem is yeshiva ketana. Cheider, you'll find somewhere where he'll be ok. There's a new cheider in Givat Hamivtar that caters more to Americans, there's one in Rechovot, one in RBS. The next stage is way more complicated. Tends to be that the less academic places are not really providing an alternative education but are just working on helping them fit in to standard yeshiva gedola. There is a lot of pressure, very little outlet, very long hours. The places where they have shorter hours, alternative learning, chugim etc often have many boys who are really struggling with their yidishkeit and can be an unhealthy atmosphere for a kid whose hashkafos are good but isn't academic.
Please allow me to make another point. Your post shows a level of resentment to the system which may be in place but isn't going to make aliya easier. If you want to make aliya, you need to accept that some things are going to be very different, for the good or the bad, and you need to be able to flow with it.
I personally agree with you that a child who isn't academic needs other outlets as an ideal not as a second best - but that's what there is right now and while helping my child, I also work very hard on accepting the system. Having said that, as I said earlier, if I was in chul and I had a child like this, I would think very hard before moving him into the Israeli system.
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amother
Chambray
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Tue, Nov 21 2023, 2:00 am
Besides Darchei Noam you also have Magen avot for boys
For girls you have Bnos Malka and Magen Avot
Both are open enough, but still can continue in the chareidi system
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Reality
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Tue, Nov 21 2023, 2:02 am
| LovesHashem wrote: | | Netzach is not chareidi by any means. A BY high school won't look at a girl from Netzach. |
I know you have a thing against Netzach. I know many lovely, OOT yeshivish families in RBS who send there.
I should have included Magen Avot as an option as well.
The Director of Darchei Noam also runs a baseball chug that he actively encourages the boys to join. Sports are not viewed as a by the way. They are viewed as a healthy outlet to be encouraged.
They also have real gym in school which is actually more than many boys schools in the US. A real gym teacher that teaches them physical fitness.
In high school they have real gym as well with some schools having access to a fitness center during gym class as well. It's not just pickup basketball.
Last edited by Reality on Tue, Nov 21 2023, 2:08 am; edited 1 time in total
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amother
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Tue, Nov 21 2023, 2:03 am
| amother Chambray wrote: | Besides Darchei Noam you also have Magen avot for boys
For girls you have Bnos Malka and Magen Avot
Both are open enough, but still can continue in the chareidi system |
Standard Israeli chareidi high schools will not look at a girl from magen avot. I believe the same is true for bnos malkah
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Reality
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Tue, Nov 21 2023, 2:10 am
| amother Peach wrote: | | Standard Israeli chareidi high schools will not look at a girl from magen avot. I believe the same is true for bnos malkah |
Aren't we trying to help an OOT yeshivish family here, not a standard in-town yeshivish family? They won't want to send their kids to these super chareidi schools either so what difference does it make?
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amother
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Tue, Nov 21 2023, 2:32 am
My ds, also in 4th grade, came home yesterday all excited about a new "mivtza" they have in cheder. They want the boys to ask each other questions to review the mishnayos during recess. I was proud of ds for being so excited about this, but I couldn't help thinking about how a kid like your ds would feel in such a school OP.
I really wonder what those boys do here. Could it be the fact that they know Hebrew makes fewer boys struggle? What do boys do if they just don't really get it?
One more thing though- someone mentioned that the chareidi system doesn't think of excelling in something that's not learning as an "ideal." That rang a bell for me because someone I know was looking into a yeshiva (I think gedola but not sure) in Beitar for her religiously struggling son. She was actually turned off because she said the menahel there is making the boys feel like it IS ideal for them to be learning computers instead of Torah (presumably so the boys don't feel so bad about themselves). So these places do exist, but they're frowned upon by many.
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amother
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Tue, Nov 21 2023, 2:59 am
| Reality wrote: | | Aren't we trying to help an OOT yeshivish family here, not a standard in-town yeshivish family? They won't want to send their kids to these super chareidi schools either so what difference does it make? |
Exactly.
Why can't a girl go to netzach elementary school or Magen Avot or Bnos Malka and Ko Tomar or Pninei Chen for high school?
These schools are very chareidi by American standards.
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LovesHashem
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Tue, Nov 21 2023, 7:16 am
| amother Offwhite wrote: | Exactly.
Why can't a girl go to netzach elementary school or Magen Avot or Bnos Malka and Ko Tomar or Pninei Chen for high school?
These schools are very chareidi by American standards. |
Pninei Chein isn't consudered chareidi in the chareidi world. Ko tomar is borderline, but they wouldn't accept a girl from any of those schools as far as I know.
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amother
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Tue, Nov 21 2023, 7:19 am
| Reality wrote: | | Aren't we trying to help an OOT yeshivish family here, not a standard in-town yeshivish family? They won't want to send their kids to these super chareidi schools either so what difference does it make? |
I'm trying to be honest. I want to help people but at the same time I've met so many people that moved to RBS thinking that some of these schools were considered accepted and they weren't and then they had a huge problem trying to get their kids to be moved to a different School after the fact.
The question is where do these kids go after Elementary School, a chareidi high school or yeshiva won't take them. They are leaving the chareidi system and will be in the torani, dati leumi, or Grey area/modern chareidi that is looked down upon by the chareidi community
I know alot of families like these, that sent to these schools. The parent body is a big mix as well. It's not simple.
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LovesHashem
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Tue, Nov 21 2023, 7:23 am
| Reality wrote: | I know you have a thing against Netzach. I know many lovely, OOT yeshivish families in RBS who send there.
I should have included Magen Avot as an option as well.
The Director of Darchei Noam also runs a baseball chug that he actively encourages the boys to join. Sports are not viewed as a by the way. They are viewed as a healthy outlet to be encouraged.
They also have real gym in school which is actually more than many boys schools in the US. A real gym teacher that teaches them physical fitness.
In high school they have real gym as well with some schools having access to a fitness center during gym class as well. It's not just pickup basketball. |
I don't have anything against them personally. I am just making it clear that it's more exposure than a BY and sets your child on a certain trajectory in life. The majority of my friends send to these two schools actually. I find myself falling into that space but I don't think I want my kids having the exposure they have. My oldest is going into first grade next year so I'm going to have to make some hard decisions and decide, because dh is turned off a bit from the chareidi system as well.
I really don't know where we will send to. It's a big decision.
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amother
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Tue, Nov 21 2023, 7:35 am
| amother OP wrote: | Yes—excelling at sports gives him tremendous confidence since he struggles in the classroom and knows it. I wouldn’t say he’s “floated through elementary school,” though. He’s in 4th grade and works hard.
Maybe if enough families with kids who don’t fit perfectly in the Chareidi “box” move to EY, we will see more acceptance of those who have different needs and strengths. |
They have. To RBS.
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amother
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Tue, Nov 21 2023, 7:37 am
| amother Offwhite wrote: | Exactly.
Why can't a girl go to netzach elementary school or Magen Avot or Bnos Malka and Ko Tomar or Pninei Chen for high school?
These schools are very chareidi by American standards. |
Pninei Chen is not considered very charedi by any standards.
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amother
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Tue, Nov 21 2023, 8:37 am
| LovesHashem wrote: | | Pninei Chein isn't consudered chareidi in the chareidi world. Ko tomar is borderline, but they wouldn't accept a girl from any of those schools as far as I know. |
Why does it have to be "considered" chareidi?
Most kids of Anglo olim in RBS marry the same, so who cares what Israeli chareidim think?
Even kids born here to Anglo olim mostly associate with the same.
We get invited to these type of weddings all the time.
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amother
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Tue, Nov 21 2023, 8:38 am
It is in the Anglo American yeshivish circles.
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