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Forum
-> Household Management
-> Finances
Is it worth going from middle class to poor
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| yes |
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[ 33 ] |
| no |
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[ 139 ] |
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| Total Votes : 172 |
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amother
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 Wed, Jan 11 2023, 6:05 pm
| Trademark wrote: | Do you expect people not to buy chocolate coins for a few cents?
Who doesn't want donuts on Chanukah? Even if it was the expensive kind, maybe this was the closest bakery and it was not worth running around town to save a few dollars.
The extreme frugality I sometimes see here on Imamother isn't realistic for most people.
Having cleaning help, occasional takeout etc are normal expenditures even if you don't have a ton of money. |
Cost of some items have gone up. Two donuts at Dunkin Donut are $3.69. I picked those because they are considered to be the standard price for not fancy donuts $2.00 for kosher donuts is nit unreasonable.
I have cleaning help and I love it and appreciate it. But it is a luxury and not a necessity and when I didn’t have as much money, I didn’t have cleaning help and leaved with more of a mess as well as having to cram basic cleaning stuff into my min existent leisure time.
The cost of tuition means that just to lead a fairly basic lower middle class existence, a frum family needs an upper class income. 🤷♀️😂
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amother
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Wed, Jan 11 2023, 6:10 pm
| Trademark wrote: | Do you expect people not to buy chocolate coins for a few cents?
Who doesn't want donuts on Chanukah? Even if it was the expensive kind, maybe this was the closest bakery and it was not worth running around town to save a few dollars.
The extreme frugality I sometimes see here on Imamother isn't realistic for most people.
Having cleaning help, occasional takeout etc are normal expenditures even if you don't have a ton of money. |
If you can't afford it then having cleaning help and takeout is a luxury. And so is buying donuts that are min $8 each.
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amother
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Wed, Jan 11 2023, 6:14 pm
| amother NeonPurple wrote: | | If you can't afford it then having cleaning help and takeout is a luxury. And so is buying donuts that are min $8 each. |
I never understand this cheshbon splurging on something once a year doesn't make or break or the bank. Maybe they skipped their coffee or something else to afford it. Cleaning help isn't always a luxury if you are working full time and have to care for your children when you are home, you need to keep the house in normal basic clean condition you don't have a choice.
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amother
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Wed, Jan 11 2023, 6:16 pm
| amother OP wrote: | I agree. Another thing that shocked me was the fact everyone would talk about inflation and this past chanukah the same donuts I remember years go was 75c during the year and a dollar on chanukah was now between 2 to 5 dollars (depending on the store..) and I was in the store with the most expensive price and guess what.. there was a massive line to buy donuts and they actually sold out.. some people bought a dozen or two even.. while in the past we always bought this year we didn't , except that Dh went to a shiur and they gave donuts and had extras to take home so that was my special treat...
With chocolate coins I remember it was 25c to 33c (3 or 4 for a dollar) so I went into a store and put one in my cart to treat my kids.. after seeing my receipt It was 79c for 3 coins (inside)... Well the next day It was sold out in the supermarket...
This is just where I am so confused.. |
I bought the doughnuts but didn’t buy my kids gifts this year . Doughnuts were way cheaper than gifts .
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amother
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Wed, Jan 11 2023, 6:28 pm
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I’m going to chime in to say that the all or nothing issues apply to eldercare as well. If an elderly person is on Medicaid, they get free homecare aides, all sorts of medical equipment and supplies, free transportation , etc. If they’re not on Medicaid and have spent their whole lives working and saving, being frugal, they then have to spend enormous sums out of pocket for aides (whose fees keep going up), and the other paraphernalia. It’s an unfair system.
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Trademark
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Wed, Jan 11 2023, 6:28 pm
| amother Orange wrote: | | I never understand this cheshbon splurging on something once a year doesn't make or break or the bank. Maybe they skipped their coffee or something else to afford it. Cleaning help isn't always a luxury if you are working full time and have to care for your children when you are home, you need to keep the house in normal basic clean condition you don't have a choice. |
Exactly.
Some people want some joy in life. A few dollars for donuts for chanukah isn't a luxury. (Also she didn't say in the post that it was $8 donuts).
As I said extreme frugality doesn't work for most people.
Cleaning help is maybe not a basic life necessity but for a few dollars you can sometimes save so much stress. It's not always about the dollars and cents.
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amother
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Wed, Jan 11 2023, 6:32 pm
| amother Orange wrote: | | I never understand this cheshbon splurging on something once a year doesn't make or break or the bank. Maybe they skipped their coffee or something else to afford it. Cleaning help isn't always a luxury if you are working full time and have to care for your children when you are home, you need to keep the house in normal basic clean condition you don't have a choice. |
If it was only once a year then that's one Bh the gift of being Jewish gives us a lot to celebrate with , chanukah is 8 days and all night days it's donut deluxe , then there is purim ,pesach ( which many chessed organizations are there for food but not for) vacations that people take Shavous mid winter vacation summer vacation etc.. sukkos vacation... Like I mentioned before and no one answered, when COVID was over tons of people went to Florida (you could claim though that it was before inflation and the Russian war didn't start yet, and people made a lot with the free unemployment money.. ) and not everyone is wealthy enough to afford that
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amother
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Wed, Jan 11 2023, 6:34 pm
| amother Nasturtium wrote: | | I’m going to chime in to say that the all or nothing issues apply to eldercare as well. If an elderly person is on Medicaid, they get free homecare aides, all sorts of medical equipment and supplies, free transportation , etc. If they’re not on Medicaid and have spent their whole lives working and saving, being frugal, they then have to spend enormous sums out of pocket for aides (whose fees keep going up), and the other paraphernalia. It’s an unfair system. | isn't there retirement, Social security?
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amother
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Wed, Jan 11 2023, 6:44 pm
| Trademark wrote: | Do you expect people not to buy chocolate coins for a few cents?
Who doesn't want donuts on Chanukah? Even if it was the expensive kind, maybe this was the closest bakery and it was not worth running around town to save a few dollars.
The extreme frugality I sometimes see here on Imamother isn't realistic for most people.
Having cleaning help, occasional takeout etc are normal expenditures even if you don't have a ton of money. | yes but if middle class is like described in the posts here then maybe there is a limit.. Like I said we also love donuts, this year we decided not to buy hopefully next year..
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amother
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Wed, Jan 11 2023, 6:49 pm
| Trademark wrote: | Exactly.
Some people want some joy in life. A few dollars for donuts for chanukah isn't a luxury. (Also she didn't say in the post that it was $8 donuts).
As I said extreme frugality doesn't work for most people.
Cleaning help is maybe not a basic life necessity but for a few dollars you can sometimes save so much stress. It's not always about the dollars and cents. |
I went without cleaning help for years and you could tell the way my house looked. I didn’t have the time to clean because I was always busy working. A few weeks ago my hours switched from part time to full time , which meant my salary changed . I decided that this additional money will pay for a cleaning lady once a week.
I could have decided to put it towards my cc debt . Or to pay towards a child’s day camp . But instead when living so tightly , working so hard , I need to feel like I’m getting something too . This cleaning help changed our entire home. It changed the entire atmosphere. I wish I could afford more because one day doesn’t complete all the work that I need . But for now , I chose this so called luxury over paying down my debt. Otherwise I would be paying 10x the amount for therapy for myself , because I was seriously losing it.
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amother
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Wed, Jan 11 2023, 6:52 pm
| amother OP wrote: | | isn't there retirement, Social security? |
That doesn’t cover astronomical medical costs .
Just an example. My FIL just passed away. He was sick for a short time with cancer. We had to pay out of pocket $1,000 a day for a nurse to be with him in the house until he passed away. The doctors said he was going to dye in a few days. He lived for 3 more weeks . 3 weeks x $1,000 a day . Money nobody has . Everyone in the family , all my in-laws children went into debt to help towards their medical bills and the nurse .
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seeker
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Wed, Jan 11 2023, 6:53 pm
| amother Nasturtium wrote: | | I’m going to chime in to say that the all or nothing issues apply to eldercare as well. If an elderly person is on Medicaid, they get free homecare aides, all sorts of medical equipment and supplies, free transportation , etc. If they’re not on Medicaid and have spent their whole lives working and saving, being frugal, they then have to spend enormous sums out of pocket for aides (whose fees keep going up), and the other paraphernalia. It’s an unfair system. |
A lot of people transfer their savings to a trust or something so it doesn't hold against them for Medicare or whatever. There are businesses whose whole purpose is doing that for people. Check it out
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amother
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Wed, Jan 11 2023, 6:53 pm
| amother OP wrote: | | If it was only once a year then that's one Bh the gift of being Jewish gives us a lot to celebrate with , chanukah is 8 days and all night days it's donut deluxe , then there is purim ,pesach ( which many chessed organizations are there for food but not for) vacations that people take Shavous mid winter vacation summer vacation etc.. sukkos vacation... Like I mentioned before and no one answered, when COVID was over tons of people went to Florida (you could claim though that it was before inflation and the Russian war didn't start yet, and people made a lot with the free unemployment money.. ) and not everyone is wealthy enough to afford that |
Tons of people earned a lot of money from the stimulus checks and used it then.
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amother
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Wed, Jan 11 2023, 7:16 pm
| seeker wrote: | | A lot of people transfer their savings to a trust or something so it doesn't hold against them for Medicare or whatever. There are businesses whose whole purpose is doing that for people. Check it out |
I know that. The trusts are for Medicaid not Medicare. So again, either the govt pays for everything or nothing. And you’ve got to put all your money in a trust so it’s in the hands of your children instead of your own control.
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amother
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Wed, Jan 11 2023, 7:23 pm
Medicaid does not pay for 24/7 home health care attendants.
The issue for long term care is that Medicaid will pay for a nursing home whereas Medicare will only pay for 100 days in a skilled nursing facility.
That is when people have to use up assets in order to pay for the skilled nursing facility if they need to stay longer than 100 days.
Most people want to be at home if possible. For that you need the financial ability to pay for home aides because neither Medicare or Medicaid will pay for full time care.
Both Medicare and Medicaid will pay for home nursing visits; for some to come in for a few times a week to help a person bathe and also for a few hours of help in the house if this is medically necessary. But many people need someone to be available 24/7 and for that you pay out of pocket or go to a nursing home.
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amother
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Wed, Jan 11 2023, 7:48 pm
| amother Nasturtium wrote: | | I know that. The trusts are for Medicaid not Medicare. So again, either the govt pays for everything or nothing. And you’ve got to put all your money in a trust so it’s in the hands of your children instead of your own control. |
I'm not an attorney so I'm not 100% sure, but I do think that there are trusts that do not give over control to the children, at least not till 120. As a matter of fact, I don't think the children have control in any kind of trust. The question is who does.... I'm not sure but I don't think its do simple.
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amother
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Wed, Jan 11 2023, 7:49 pm
| amother Canary wrote: | | Tons of people earned a lot of money from the stimulus checks and used it then. | I guess we have to assume that. Just wondering at the time the stimulus was being given was anyone practically aware that eventually taxes would go up to get back all that money (I don't think economics so I definitely was not aware)
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amother
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Wed, Jan 11 2023, 7:53 pm
| amother OP wrote: | | I guess we have to assume that. Just wondering at the time the stimulus was being given was anyone practically aware that eventually taxes would go up to get back all that money (I don't think economics so I definitely was not aware) |
Yes I studied economics so I was aware it could and would cause inflation. Not really taxes - I haven't seen that taxes have gone up.
Still I was glad to get it at the time - sort of like an internet free loan (for me).
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amother
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Wed, Jan 11 2023, 7:55 pm
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And the pizza and ice cream stores always being full especially motzei shabbos also is very interesting to me.... We didn't have pizza since COVID so DH and I decided to after a long time get a slice for ourselves , well like I posted on a different thread 2 slices and a can of coke cost us almost 10 dollars.. we decided for the meantime it's not happening again...
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amother
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Wed, Jan 11 2023, 7:57 pm
| amother OP wrote: | | And the pizza and ice cream stores always being full especially motzei shabbos also is very interesting to me.... We didn't have pizza since COVID so DH and I decided to after a long time get a slice for ourselves , well like I posted on a different thread 2 slices and a can of coke cost us almost 10 dollars.. we decided for the meantime it's not happening again... |
For all you know each family goes once every few months. Or it’s just the rich people. The volume of people living here is so high everything is packed at any given time. Last time I went was mostly teens using their babysitting money…
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