For all those jealous of the poor—peaceful discussion please

↑ Amarante ↓

Wed, Jan 11 2023, 10:44 am

amother Brunette wrote:

Except, as I said earlier, one is only eligible for premium rebates through the Marketplace if there is no insurance available through their workplace.

There are tax deductible benefits to workplaces who have insurance available, but they don't have to pay and they don't have to have anything affordable available.

My husband's job offers Platinum insurance level only. That means $1800-$2500 monthly premiums just for myself and my husband. Kids are still eligible for JerseyCare. And deductibles of $6000. They don't subsidize because they don't have to.
So we went to the Marketplace. But because technically he has insurance through his office available, we are not eligible for any subsidies so it was a choice of Bronze level at $500/month with a $12500 deductible or Silver level with an $900/month and a $8000 deductible.

That's not any affordable options for an average couple that makes 115k a year.

That is an unfortunate issue with it which the opponents of any form of the Health Care Act refused to allow to be amended.

I was responding to a comment that somehow differentiated between insurance purchased through the marketplace and "private" insurance as they are both private health insurance.

Health insurance in the US is very expensive because medical care in the US is bloated because of various reasons including overhead and administrative costs that are "earned" by private health insurance companies.

There is a reason why the most satisfied healthcare users have Medicare which is ironically less expensive to administer and offers access to almost every health provider with no limitations in terms of states. The reimbursement is a bit lower than most private networks that aren't HMO but is quite a bit higher than Medicaid reimbursement rates. And significantly, except for pediatricians and OB/GYN, most doctors would not be able to have a viable practice if they didn't accept Medicare since they have a lot of seniors since they access medical care more than younger adults who aren't pregnant for the most part.

↑ seeker ↓

Wed, Jan 11 2023, 11:34 am

Amarante wrote:

This is not completely accurate.

All insurance is private insurance whether you get it through your state's marketplace or whether you get it directly from the insurance company. Or if you get it through your corporate employer.

However, if you purchase your insurance through the marketplace you are eligible for a premium subsidy which can be a significant savings as it is based on income and size of family.

There might be some slight differences between a Blue Cross plan but in general the big difference in terms of co-payments and out of pockets costs would be the tier with Bronze being the least expensive and Platinum being the most expensive.

The way to determine which makes sense is to try to calculate how your family uses health insurance and see what the total annual cost would be including premiums less subsidies.

A good insurance broker has software that does the calculation for you and you can use an insurance broker for insurance you purchase through the marketplace or otherwise. Your broker gets the same commission from the insurance company because the insurance company makes the entire premium and any "subsidy" is paid to the insurance company by the Federal government.

Corporate insurance (I.e offered through a company) is also subsidized by the Federal government as well since the cost of health care benefits is deductible by the corporation and NOT taxable to the employee so it is a doubly valuable benefit.

Accurate or not, this was my experience. Could be it depends what level Obamacare you buy into. I am talking about the lower levels because I'm talking about what happens if you earn a little too much for medicaid but not enough to spend a fortune on a better plan. You can get an essential plan for next to nothing with low co-pays, or bronze or something for a little more, but most doctors won't take it. I had that for a while and made do, and now I have an employer sponsored insurance which more doctors accept but the deductible and co-pays are much much much higher.

But the bottom line is that thanks to Obamacare, people who phase out of medicaid no longer face a total cliff. However there is still a cliff farther down the road.

↑ Amarante ↓

Wed, Jan 11 2023, 11:36 am

seeker wrote:

I don't know exactly how it works but evidently there is a much more subsidized plan available in the Silver Tier that is cheaper than Bronze. I had read about it several years ago as it was then being used to incentivize people by lowering their premiums substantially.

I don't how it works which is why my suggestion again would be for someone to use an insurance broker who can advise people based on their individual use of medical care and their income.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Wed, Jan 11 2023, 12:31 pm

I again want to thank again all those that voted/posted and allowed this to be a peaceful discussion.
To my fellow "middle classed" imas I want to thank you for sharing what it's like for you and now am able to get a better understanding of what goes on with your expenses and how hard it is when you dont have insurance that covers etc. I daven that no one remain like this and that we all be showered with abundance iyh.

It just seemed odd to me and now I just wonder if 1 is there a class between the middle class mentioned here and the wealthy. 2 who are those people who constantly go for vacations/hotels etc.. whether advertised in the newsapers or like the time covid ended where almost literally everyone rushed to miami for pesach or even the shabbos this past summer where we went to parsipay for shabbos (being only able to pay with c c points that we accumalated for a long time and bringing our own shabbos food which was cheap enough for us to choose this shabbos gateway) where every week there was another gateway available and it was always filled to capacity... who are those people that always go ? (and I dont think most people are wealthy as that is how the world is) unless you will tell me again that it s c c debt for this as well... and who are all those people that are driving with fancy or good looking cars.. (yes I am jealous somewhat but used to it so dont worry)..3 Also I'm just wondering what salary/job one has to make and what are the numbers to rise above the "middle class" discussed here..

↑ seeker ↓

Wed, Jan 11 2023, 1:07 pm

Same way you used cc points to go away for Shabbos, others do too. There are a LOT of Jews in this small world, even if people only do that once a year it's enough to make it feel like people are constantly going.

As for the people going to fancy advertised hotel programs, I know of a few legit wealthy families who do, some bring their kids/grandkids too. I know others who are not in the wealthy category but their kids are older, they're finished with tuitions and stuff, and now they can do these things - and most people in that age category were middle class back when it was a place to be. There was a time when things added up more neatly, I believe.

amother

Rainbow ↓

Wed, Jan 11 2023, 1:19 pm

amother OP wrote:

Finances are very unique. Some people still have parental support in the form of help with tuition, home, etc.
many many many people are making a lot of money.
I get you completely. I live next door to a family where mother is a sahm, father seems to have some sort of job where he can leave the house at 9:30 or ten, be home by 430, and home early on Friday - but they make enough money to do constant renovations on their brand new home and dress head to do in ferragamo Christian Dior golden goose, she has gorgeous new sheitels and huge diamond jewelry, and they’re always on vacation, and of course she also has a nanny and constant cleaning help.
It takes work for me to remember to be grateful and not bitter about my life: I do have a great dh and a few adorable kids. I also have to work, dh’s job is not as flexible as my neighbors and we can’t afford the lifestyle they have, and I’m even stressed out about having more kids because of finances.
But I am working hard to appreciate my life because if I don’t, I’ll lose out.

amother

↑ Ivory ↓

Wed, Jan 11 2023, 1:27 pm

Thanks everyone for their contribution to this thread. I quit my job because of my disability and have been looking to switch careers because I can’t do my old job anymore. Dh keeps insisting that it doesn’t pay for me to go to work and I keep telling him that doesn’t make sense, at the very least I can get health benefits (he doesn’t get any) and not need to settle for whoever accepts Medicaid or pay out of pocket. But it seems like he’s right and my bringing in just enough to disqualify us for Medicaid will only make things worse (like I said I’m disabled and am limited on how much I can bring in) this is so frustrating. I’d love to be able to bring in a bit of money and start saving for a bit of property of our own. It seems like that’s not really doable. A lot to think about for sure.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Wed, Jan 11 2023, 1:30 pm

amother Ivory wrote:

can you get a job off the books ? (I'm know I spoke about it before but I mean like make a little.. enough to save)

amother

↑ OP ↓

Wed, Jan 11 2023, 2:14 pm

amother Royalblue wrote:

In the frum community, you need at least 3-400k annually for most mid size families to be able to live comfortably. It’s an insane number but I do believe it to be accurate.

The people that I know who are earning enough to live comfortably are business owners, CEOs or successful attorneys.

I would say that most of the frum community is financially stressed. Something needs to change.

I agree. Another thing that shocked me was the fact everyone would talk about inflation and this past chanukah the same donuts I remember years go was 75c during the year and a dollar on chanukah was now between 2 to 5 dollars (depending on the store..) and I was in the store with the most expensive price and guess what.. there was a massive line to buy donuts and they actually sold out.. some people bought a dozen or two even.. while in the past we always bought this year we didn't , except that Dh went to a shiur and they gave donuts and had extras to take home so that was my special treat...
With chocolate coins I remember it was 25c to 33c (3 or 4 for a dollar) so I went into a store and put one in my cart to treat my kids.. after seeing my receipt It was 79c for 3 coins (inside)... Well the next day It was sold out in the supermarket...
This is just where I am so confused..

↑ Trademark ↓

Wed, Jan 11 2023, 2:55 pm

amother OP wrote:

Do you expect people not to buy chocolate coins for a few cents?

Who doesn't want donuts on Chanukah? Even if it was the expensive kind, maybe this was the closest bakery and it was not worth running around town to save a few dollars.

The extreme frugality I sometimes see here on Imamother isn't realistic for most people.

Having cleaning help, occasional takeout etc are normal expenditures even if you don't have a ton of money.