For all those jealous of the poor—peaceful discussion please

↑ Trademark ↓

Tue, Jan 10 2023, 1:59 pm

amother Brunette wrote:

JerseyCare is HMO Medicaid.
In Lakewood, most regular drs take it.

We're a family of 7. So those are the numbers I know.
Under around 48k, parents and children are on, no payments.
Over 48k, parents get kicked off, children stay on with a $1/$5 copay depending on the procedure.
By around 80k, you pay a monthly premium of around $30.
By around 95k, monthly premium of around $60.
The children get kicked off at approximately 115k.
No deductibles.

It's not perfect. And people who need some specialists struggle. OT, PT, Speech can be stressful.
But average cost is massive.

Thanks!

amother

↑ OP ↓

Tue, Jan 10 2023, 4:53 pm

So now I will say the benefits one gets while being poor (and I still dont think its worth it)

They can apply for section 8 which is lottery based and most people dont get selected

Medicaid- yes they pay for good doctors specialists and surgeries (may we always be healthy and never need one) medication (even sometimes the very expensive ones if the doctor knows how to bill correctly) not all doctors though (many doctors take insurance but not medicaid I wonder if those insurances belong to middle class or not). And only in that state. (I know there are insurances that work for tri state area wonder if that belongs to middle class or not). They pay for labwork. Procedures with a referal... (mri , cat scan ,sonogram etc..)

You can get insoles (if you have a foot problem) I heard they cost 200 - 400 dollars

Free glasses (but the junky ones not rimless or half rimless)

transportation to appointments (sometimes car service if medically necessary)

Obama phone (smartphone) and tablet

internet discount (like posted on the other thread)

help with certain bills

food stamps (but literally if you have a high salary you see that the amount given in foodstamps are peanuts compared to the money you make)

Not sure if I missed anything.

In my opinion though unless one is direly in need of those things then middle class is better off. Like I explained (and no one really gave a real answer) that the social status of being poor is really not fun. Amongst the community you have a low name neighbors , sometimes become famous for the gemachs and organizations... If you have a normal job but things are tight but you have dignity (and people dont know what you are going through so you dont get a bad name) then at least it feels somewhat better. This is my perspective please feel free to share yours and/or the benefits listed above are provided by your insurance or something that would be lifechanging to you had you had it.

amother

Orange ↓

Tue, Jan 10 2023, 4:58 pm

I recently switched from medicaid to private insurance. No one wants my insurance. I have top insurance they all tell me medicaid pays so much more they don't want it. I had no issue finding top doctors on medicaid. This is a lie people like to spread to convince people to think getting off medicaid is good. It's a disaster, I can't find good doctors, I pay premiums, co insurance, deductibles, copays. I might as well just pay out of pocket it would come out cheaper. Really let's stop pretending medicaid is a disadvantage I lost so many amazing doctors when I lost it.

amother

Pearl ↓

Tue, Jan 10 2023, 5:03 pm

amother OP wrote:

Stopped reading at the bolded. What an insulting statement. Glasses aren't junky if they arent rimless or half rimless. Wonder what else you think is junky...

amother

↑ OP ↓

Tue, Jan 10 2023, 5:14 pm

amother Pearl wrote:

Stopped reading at the bolded. What an insulting statement. Glasses aren't junky if they arent rimless or half rimless. Wonder what else you think is junky...

I am sorry if you took that as an insult but today most people I see wearing glasses are rimless or half rimless and that is the style... people are not so happy with what medicaid offers and all I was pointing out is that that is not a reason to join ... if you have special lenses that need to be modified they also dont cover those...

imaima

Tue, Jan 10 2023, 5:24 pm

amother PlumPink wrote:

As someone who is poor, most of the issues on your list are not even anywhere near my list. This is my list of issues due to being poor:
1. Constant crushing stress about how I will be able to buy food, pay tuition, pay the bills. Will the electricity be shut next week, will my kids be allowed back in school next year, will my credit card be declined so that I can't even buy potatoes and beans for supper?
2. My dd needs braces but medicaid won't cover it. But she really needs braces desperately. What can I do?
3. Ultimate shame at asking relatives or the local tzedakah organizations for handouts.
4. I can find clothing for my little kids at the local gemachs, but my teens would be mortified. But they desperately need new clothing. What do I do now?
5. My niece who I am close to finally got engaged! But they're asking $15 to chip in for the gift. How can I chip in? How can I not?

I can go on. But I think you get the picture. Cancun isn't even on the wish list. Vacation means a hike in a nearby park. And if it's a good month I'll buy a special treat.

Hugs
I also found OPs list pretty superficial.

↑ Trademark ↓

Tue, Jan 10 2023, 5:59 pm

amother OP wrote:

Nobody says that it's worth being poor.

Do you realize that when many middle income families have to pay all of the above out of pocket there is not much of a difference at the end of the day?

As for social status, why does anyone know that you have food stamps or Medicaid?

I would say nowadays it's hard to tell the financial status of a person without asking outright (of course there are exceptions.)

But OP this all theoretical and wish you that all your financial worries should disappear very soon.

amother

NeonGreen ↓

Tue, Jan 10 2023, 6:22 pm

I see there's already 4 pages of replies I don't have time to read but I feel like responding just for fun. I moved from poor to middle class a couple of years ago.

Replied in bold within the op quote.

amother OP wrote:

ETA I started to list the "positives" of being poor on page 4

I am starting a spinoff because on the other thread people were saying how the poor are getting richer and middle class is suffering etc...

Now I decided to point out what things being poor makes us lose out on and you tell me if middles class is the same (or even worse) and it would be clear if its really worth it. I would appreciate if first the poor class would comment on this first so the list be more complete but obviously it's not necessary.

When being poor there is literally no way you can get a good therapist who deals with trauma and severe cases as they do not accept Medicaid. (I have seen many who accept the non Medicaid insurances) So if you went through something extreme in life you have to either take loans to pay for it or live with it (I don't know about middle class but let me know)
there are no good therapists on my middle class insurance either. I actually found that medicaid covered more things than my current insurance which is considered to be a good one in the non-medicaid world. I'm being turned down for prescriptions of normal common medications that were 100% free when I had medicaid. I was once successful in getting my medicaid plan to approve an out of network therapist but that was a long time ago so I'm not sure if it got harder.

You can barely go on vacation , get a trip to eretz yisroel , cancan or most of those high class hotels that people post about or are in the magazines (unless you get a signup bonus credit card which anyone can get)
I can't afford any of that either. You said middle class, not rich. I'm solidly out of medicaid range but nowhere near vacation range.

I haven't seen a poor family with medicaid (who deserves medicaid and isnt making money under the table) buy a house or get a mortgage
I have a house and its eating me alive. The mortgage is a little less than rent would be, but I'm on the hook for everything that needs fixing or maintenance. I pine for the days I rented and everything was the landlord's problem. When you add the expenses to the mortgage it for sure comes out to more than rent for an equivalent house plus dealing with all these things is a massive headache. And a lot of it is unpredictable so you can't really budget for it unlike rent which stays the same regardless of what wore out. The only advantage is that I don't have to worry that when my lease is up they'll decide to stop renting and I'll have to move. But compared to the headache and expense of home ownership I consider it about even. And while the lack of permanence of renting can be a stress, it also has some perks - our neighborhood has declined and our family has grown but there's no way we're going anywhere because this is the house we own and we're sticking with it.

your status in communities are usually lower when you are poor. You get less shidduchim for your child (see the other thread) aren't really recognized and chances are you will never be honored for anything in your life (even for the yeshiva dinner parents of the year award which is not important)
I couldn't care less about being honored, and I doubt I ever would be anyway. No idea about shidduchim because we're not there for a few years yet but I won't qualify for seminary scholarships and I can't afford to support a couple and I'm also not a klei kodesh family myself so I don't see how my kids are a better shidduch than they were on medicaid.

If there is something you really need badly and cant afford it there is no I will work more or work harder this week month etc.. becuase if you do you will lose all yor benefits.. you will always have to go to gemachs if that item or service is available or chv live without it
this point I will grant you and it's the main reason I worked so hard to make the jump. I did always manage to access what I needed but I didn't like having to calculate that if I make a little more than I'll lose out. Though, ultimately, that is exactly what happened - I make more, and I lost out. I'm still working like a dog, still not quite affording life, while also feeling like a sucker every time I hand over a $50 copay for something my cleaning lady gets for free.

there is almost no room or potential to get promoted to a higher job / position/ wealth ...

you always rent and never know if you will get kicked out , will need to move , or if rent will go up
you already mentioned home ownership above

its extremely hard to save money for emergencies chv..
still is, but the problem of not being able to increase income again you already mentioned above

you are always in worry about how you will make your next simcha and will need to call this gemacch and that one and get references etc.. and work much harder and it doesn't always feel good
I have a bar mitzvah coming up and I'm dreading it. I'm happy for all the rich people out there but you specifically mentioned middle class which I'm reading as a step above poor, I.e. no benefits but not rich either, and I have no idea how people like me afford simchas. Don't know how people like you do either. I just don't think I'm in a better position. The money goes out just as fast as it comes in.

certain dental speialists are not covered forget about those dental costs (this is a message to be carefull about your teeth) such as endodontists, periodontists, crowns caps , and harder procedures..
to get a provider that accepts you have to go to a hospital and usually its the med students that see you who may not be that professional.
students are very up to date with all their knowledge fresh and very supervised by people who are considered good enough to be their teachers. Granted it's not the same as going to the top whatever but I think I trust supervised students more than a random person who's been out of school for ages and has no one to answer to
To pay for a crown sometimes is over a thousand dollars (and there have been numerous threads here where people couldnt afford it)

Now this is the perspective of being poor , maybe if I get a chance I ll post the benefits as well. Those who complain about middle class you can post the challenges of being middle class and it can be an open (peacefull) discussion as honestly I have never been in your shoes so I don't know what perspective you are coming from. If anyone wants to add onto the list please feel free..

In summary I sympathize with the challenges of being poor since I have been there too, and I do think it's more ideal not to be, but I do not find that my life is any easier in middle class. Traded one set of struggles for another and there is still not enough money for anything. And EVERYTHING got SO MUCH more expensive so fast. You know how fast co-pays add up? And house repairs? And there are no camp scholarships for people like me. Bh I still get a tuition break, I'm sure it would be bigger if I weren't so comfortably middle class but I'm not complaining about that because at least I'm not choking on the full price and it feels appropriate to stretch for my kids' education.

I'm satisfied with my choices in life but I still so often find it totally jarring how much of a struggle it still is and how stressed I still am. Also I actually really really miss medicaid. There aren't really more doctors who take my "fancy" insurance, there are so many things that aren't covered (again this is considered one of the better plans!), there are co-pays for everything sometimes high enough to make me question whether to seek care... sigh

amother

↑ Pearl ↓

Tue, Jan 10 2023, 6:30 pm

amother OP wrote:

gotta be in style even if on medicaid...

amother

↑ OP ↓

Tue, Jan 10 2023, 6:39 pm

Anyways I want to thank everyone for making it a friendly discussion thread. It's very ineresting that the same thoughts and conversations come up again.. as I found this thread through a search. (I di not post there before)

https://www.imamother.com/foru.....36845

amother

Hawthorn

Tue, Jan 10 2023, 9:19 pm

amother OP wrote:

I didn't read the whole thing. But we live out of town and bought a house when we moved here. Actually cheaper than renting. And we've been on Medicaid for a long time

amother

↑ Emerald ↓

Tue, Jan 10 2023, 9:28 pm

amother OP wrote:

The social status thing really shifts if the husband is learning or kli kodesh- then it’s not a “failure” to be poor.

amother

Currant ↓

Tue, Jan 10 2023, 9:31 pm

amother OP wrote:

So now I will say the benefits one gets while being poor (and I still dont think its worth it)

food stamps (but literally if you have a high salary you see that the amount given in foodstamps are peanuts compared to the money you make)

Not sure if I missed anything.

In my opinion though unless one is direly in need of those things then middle class is better off. Like I explained (and no one really gave a real answer) that the social status of being poor is really not fun. Amongst the community you have a low name neighbors , sometimes become famous for the gemachs and organizations... If you have a normal job but things are tight but you have dignity (and people dont know what you are going through so you dont get a bad name) then at least it feels somewhat better. This is my perspective please feel free to share yours and/or the benefits listed above are provided by your insurance or something that would be lifechanging to you had you had it.

.
Firstly if food stamps is peanuts then why do people have leftovers to sell or buy extras to stock the coffee room(true story)

Secondly maybe it depends on community but where I live there is no indignity of being on Jerseycare. When I take my kids to the dr. I need to remind them that I have a copay. Its sort of a given that noone has one

amother

Stone ↓

Tue, Jan 10 2023, 9:34 pm

amother Orange wrote:

This must be a very unique circumstances because Medicaid reimburses lower than Medicare or private insurance.

That is the reason many doctors don't take any Medicaid patients.

In fact in most places, there are almost no doctors who will accept Medicaid because doctors can't afford to treat patients for the rates Medicaid reimburses.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Tue, Jan 10 2023, 11:03 pm

amother Emerald wrote:

The social status thing really shifts if the husband is learning or kli kodesh- then it’s not a “failure” to be poor.

I must say I cant disagree with that.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Tue, Jan 10 2023, 11:04 pm

amother Currant wrote:

Not with us. We don't have extra. Could be they are making money off the tabe which I said is a different discussion

amother

↑ Orange ↓

Tue, Jan 10 2023, 11:05 pm

amother Stone wrote:

It is not unique circumstances, almost every practice that takes insurance takes medicaid. The only ones who don't are those who don't take any insurance. Medicaid currently reimburses more, that's the reality.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Tue, Jan 10 2023, 11:10 pm

amother Orange wrote:

Not quite correct I have seen doctors (haven't actualy seen them) in NYU HSS and an endocronologist in columbia that do not take medicaid but take other insurances. And like I said many therapists I have seen take other insurances but not medicaid. (I would post from psycology today but dont have the time) many are names of those mentioned on this site

amother

↑ Ivory ↓

Tue, Jan 10 2023, 11:12 pm

amother Orange wrote:

And I need to sign up to private insurance to get the services I need covered because they won’t accept Medicaid but do accept blue cross blue shield. So idk if you live in a different area or your needs are different from mine or what, but I literally have the opposite experience from you. I was on my parents bcbs plan until I was 26 and did so much better with that plan. So many things aren’t covered by Medicaid that were covered by bcbs.

amother

↑ Ivory ↓

Tue, Jan 10 2023, 11:13 pm

amother Orange wrote:

Very very odd. Where are you located? NY? That’s the only place I can think of where maybe Medicaid pays more.