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Forum
-> Working Women
-> Teachers' Room
amother
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 Sun, Dec 26 2021, 1:56 am
| Mommyg8 wrote: | | Lol, Rav Brudny just discovered this today? Mah mishaneh? |
To be fair, in the past many more people were able to survive with the father learning full-time and the mother teaching. Standards were a lot lower and life was less expensive and if you were a chinuch family it was understood that you didn't need to measure up to the Jones'. I had a bunch of teachers whose husbands were still in kollel after many years and the wife was a teacher. Nowadays it seems to be less common.
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tigerwife
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Sun, Dec 26 2021, 2:33 am
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It seems to me that the crisis is more about experienced teachers leaving the field because of the measly pay than fresh seminary grads wanting a “choshuv” limudai kodesh job to stick onto their resume.
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imaima
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Sun, Dec 26 2021, 2:40 am
| amother [ Daisy ] wrote: | Anecdotally seasoned teachers are leaving the field in droves. The seminary girls that signed up for idealistic reasons can’t make ends meet on 22k a year. Even if there were a ready supply of inexperienced 19 year olds, if many jump ship after 3 to 4 years that itself is a crisis situation.
Rav Elya Brudny is telling boys he can’t recommend going out with a teachers because the finances just won’t work for a kollel family.
Houston we have a problem. |
Well here is your answer to the shidducch crisis.
How backwards is this idea?!
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notshanarishona
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Sun, Dec 26 2021, 6:11 am
It depends on the city but yes there are definitely less people going into teaching than 20 years ago when it was encouraged for good BY girls.
And as far as fresh 19 year olds, the average 19 year old is not competent enough to handle 25 kids and teach them. You need some form of experience.
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amother
Begonia
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Sun, Dec 26 2021, 7:25 am
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Baltimore is having a big problem finding bais Yaakov teachers. Especially in the middle and high school. Seminary girls might want to teach but it's very temporary for them and they're not experienced and many really aren't cut out for it.
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amother
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Sun, Dec 26 2021, 7:28 am
| tigerwife wrote: | | It seems to me that the crisis is more about experienced teachers leaving the field because of the measly pay than fresh seminary grads wanting a “choshuv” limudai kodesh job to stick onto their resume. |
With my friends - I’m finding once their kids are out of elementary they leave bec it is no longer worth teaching.
A friend of mine had 5 kids in school with reduced tuition. Now that only 2 are left she is leaving bec her tuition savings are not so great.
She is an amazing teacher and her salary besides for the tuition savings was actually very high. But she is just burnt out. It’s a taxing job.
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amother
Hyacinth
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Sun, Dec 26 2021, 7:42 am
Look in the five towns.
Massive shortage of moros in all the schools!!
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amother
Leaf
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Sun, Dec 26 2021, 7:45 am
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I live in 5towns -three of my kids classes STILL have no permanent Morah.
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Hashem_Yaazor
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Sun, Dec 26 2021, 7:50 am
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I live out of town. Almost no one wants to be a morah even if they have credentials and experience...
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amother
Fuchsia
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Sun, Dec 26 2021, 7:54 am
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Chicago, and we have a huge shortage of teachers. Elementary, high school, kodesh and chol
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amother
DarkRed
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Sun, Dec 26 2021, 7:55 am
I’m a Morah of more than 15 years in an out of town day school. I do some administrative things also, I have a masters degree. My husband is in Klei kodesh. I work full time, long hours. I always take work home with me too. The only reason this is able to work for my family is because we’re crazy altruistic about the cause, the pay is more than in-town, we get a tuition break, and most importantly- we are able to be confident to live a VERY low key lifestyle. It’s not simple.
We don’t have cleaning help. My kids wear primarily hand me downs (and look great BH.) We eat simple (but delicious!) meals- usually pareve or dairy, no takeout. No fancy vacations. Second hand furniture. No new sheitels. Small, simple home (did I say no cleaning help?) Being in Klei Kodesh is a privilege that we pay for greatly, but feel that the spiritual benefits and fulfillment of passion outweigh the inconveniences right now.
The rare friends I have who are morahs all have husbands with great jobs, living nice lifestyles. I’m constantly trying to make sure my kids feel proud and comfortable in their own shoes, and that they don’t grow resentment of not-having because we live this life. BH BH so far so good!
I don’t know how many women are cut out to live like this, especially the younger generation. You have to have thick skin to social norms and status. You have to be super resourceful and know how to rock what you’ve got. BH I don’t believe anyone I know consider us as have-nots... Oh, and we land in that happy place between not qualifying for govt programs and wishing we could get some breaks.
Given the demands of the field (if you’re doing it right!) being a Morah is only a long term job for someone insanely dedicated, very socially and emotionally aware, socially savvy, willing to pull long and late hours, and able to either live with less/little or has a husband taking it in 
That’s why there’s a shortage.
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amother
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Sun, Dec 26 2021, 8:02 am
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I’m in Lakewood. The schools have a shortage of limudei chol teachers, limudei kodesh less so but there are some new graduates getting limudei kodesh jobs and in the past that would have been unheard of.
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amother
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Sun, Dec 26 2021, 8:02 am
| imaima wrote: | Well here is your answer to the shidducch crisis.
How backwards is this idea?! | I cringed when I read that. So sad.
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amother
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Sun, Dec 26 2021, 8:48 am
| tigerwife wrote: | | It seems to me that the crisis is more about experienced teachers leaving the field because of the measly pay than fresh seminary grads wanting a “choshuv” limudai kodesh job to stick onto their resume. |
This. You can't run a successful school on 18 year old graduates.
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amother
DarkCyan
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Sun, Dec 26 2021, 9:14 am
| amother [ OP ] wrote: | | So we've been reading in the magazines and hearing at the conventions for the past few months about how no one wants to become a morah (specifically a limudei kodesh morah, it seems) anymore and there are all these positions that the schools are struggling to fill. All the articles and letters and convention panelists seem to agree that this is a major issue and it must be dealt with, mostly by raising morahs' salaries in order to make teaching more of a financially realistic option for our girls. |
Why specifically limudei kodesh? I live in Detroit and in my school the kodesh teachers make a higher salary than chol and they also get a tuition deal (adds up to a lot) that the chol teachers don't get. More people in my school want to teach kodesh than chol because of the salary.
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amother
Gardenia
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Sun, Dec 26 2021, 9:23 am
| amother [ DarkCyan ] wrote: | | Why specifically limudei kodesh? I live in Detroit and in my school the kodesh teachers make a higher salary than chol and they also get a tuition deal (adds up to a lot) that the chol teachers don't get. More people in my school want to teach kodesh than chol because of the salary. |
Where I live - oot - the kodesh day is half an hour longer for the girls till 8th grade. After that it's departmentalized.
I'm also hearing that finding substitutes is near impossible.
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amother
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Sun, Dec 26 2021, 9:29 am
Monsey and Passaic have shortage of all teachers. So too 5t/ queens.
Lakewood for limudei chol.
I’m saddened by whoever posted/ agreed its a made-up crisis.
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amother
Papayawhip
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Sun, Dec 26 2021, 9:34 am
| amother [ DarkRed ] wrote: | I’m a Morah of more than 15 years in an out of town day school. I do some administrative things also, I have a masters degree. My husband is in Klei kodesh. I work full time, long hours. I always take work home with me too. The only reason this is able to work for my family is because we’re crazy altruistic about the cause, the pay is more than in-town, we get a tuition break, and most importantly- we are able to be confident to live a VERY low key lifestyle. It’s not simple.
We don’t have cleaning help. My kids wear primarily hand me downs (and look great BH.) We eat simple (but delicious!) meals- usually pareve or dairy, no takeout. No fancy vacations. Second hand furniture. No new sheitels. Small, simple home (did I say no cleaning help?) Being in Klei Kodesh is a privilege that we pay for greatly, but feel that the spiritual benefits and fulfillment of passion outweigh the inconveniences right now.
The rare friends I have who are morahs all have husbands with great jobs, living nice lifestyles. I’m constantly trying to make sure my kids feel proud and comfortable in their own shoes, and that they don’t grow resentment of not-having because we live this life. BH BH so far so good!
I don’t know how many women are cut out to live like this, especially the younger generation. You have to have thick skin to social norms and status. You have to be super resourceful and know how to rock what you’ve got. BH I don’t believe anyone I know consider us as have-nots... Oh, and we land in that happy place between not qualifying for govt programs and wishing we could get some breaks.
Given the demands of the field (if you’re doing it right!) being a Morah is only a long term job for someone insanely dedicated, very socially and emotionally aware, socially savvy, willing to pull long and late hours, and able to either live with less/little or has a husband taking it in
That’s why there’s a shortage. |
I live exactly how you described as well and I have a more "professional" job in the field I got a masters in. But my husband is a Rebbe (after many years of Kollel) so we are in the same boat. When I went to college I knew I couldn't afford to become a teacher if I wanted a learning/Klei kodesh husband. (Which is fine, because I was very uninterested in the field of teaching anyway.) Now my girls are starting to consider their career paths and I am very discouraging of them going into teaching.
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amother
Stonewash
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Sun, Dec 26 2021, 9:46 am
I am a teacher for over thirty years. My salary is a joke - a 19 year old going for an office job makes the same amount. I am super dedicated and work many hours overtime to maximize my students educational experience . I am only able to do this job because my husband makes a nice living. He had to leave his klei kidesh job to make that happen.
If I had to make the choice today I would never become a teacher but I would also then miss out on the joy and satisfaction that I have from helping students with learning differences and their families. I am grateful that I didn’t know then what I know now.
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Mommyg8
↓
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Sun, Dec 26 2021, 10:14 am
| amother [ OP ] wrote: | | To be fair, in the past many more people were able to survive with the father learning full-time and the mother teaching. Standards were a lot lower and life was less expensive and if you were a chinuch family it was understood that you didn't need to measure up to the Jones'. I had a bunch of teachers whose husbands were still in kollel after many years and the wife was a teacher. Nowadays it seems to be less common. |
I don't think it was any easier to survive with a father learning full time and the mother teaching, in any era, in any decade, in any year. Teachers never got paid living wages in all my years (and I'm not young).
It seems that nowadays girls know they have other options, or perhaps girls today are just more practical and less willing to live on emunah.
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