Is there or isn't there a shortage of moros??? + update :)

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amother

OP ↓

Sun, Dec 26 2021, 12:21 am

So we've been reading in the magazines and hearing at the conventions for the past few months about how no one wants to become a morah (specifically a limudei kodesh morah, it seems) anymore and there are all these positions that the schools are struggling to fill. All the articles and letters and convention panelists seem to agree that this is a major issue and it must be dealt with, mostly by raising morahs' salaries in order to make teaching more of a financially realistic option for our girls.

My question is why I am seeing such a different reality on the ground! I live in a large frum community with many large schools. My daughter came back from seminary and - along with many, many of her classmates - wanted to teach limudei kodesh long-term despite the low pay, but the schools were all flooded with applicants for limudei kodesh positions, so most girls ended up pursuing a different career path instead or teaching limudei chol because there were simply more openings. My daughter became a fourth grade limudei chol teacher for that same reason.

And I know it's not just in our community that this is the case; my daughter's friends in three other large "in-town" communities told her the same story. I really don't understand it. If Mishpacha and the Voice and Torah Umesorah are correct and there really is a drastic shortage of moros across the board in klal yisroel and no one wants to be a morah anymore, why are hundreds of post-seminary girls being turned away from the schools they are applying to?

Update: To summarize lots of the rest of this thread Smile

it seems that there really are enough applicants for teaching positions, but not enough applicants with significant prior teaching experience, possibly because many teachers do not stick around in the field long-term due to financial difficulties. So maybe this recent focus on raising morahs' salaries will have an effect on the issue?

amother

Stone ↓

Sun, Dec 26 2021, 12:32 am

I live in cleveland.
I feel like majority of girls who came out of seminary from one of our schools work for a company named LTC.
Very few joined the teaching corps.
Few became moros bc most slots are married women, and there were very few morah positions available.
And in Cleveland, the English teachers need to have a degree or almost done with theirs, so very few fresh seminary grads qualify.

In Cleveland we have a major shortage of normal, frum English teachers, both in boys and girls divisions.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Sun, Dec 26 2021, 12:37 am

amother [ Stone ] wrote:

Interesting. The girls only become moros once they're married, or most of Cleveland's moros are originally from other communities where they were able to be moros beforehand even when single?

amother

↑ Stone ↓

Sun, Dec 26 2021, 12:40 am

Very low turnovera.
For example, my girls are in a school building with prek-6, two classes per grade. Total of 16 main morahs.
Of the sixteen morahs, one was a new hire this year.

amother

↑ Stone ↓

Sun, Dec 26 2021, 12:41 am

Many of the morahs started off in other cities

amother

↑ OP ↓

Sun, Dec 26 2021, 12:42 am

amother [ Stone ] wrote:

Many of the morahs started off in other cities

amother

↑ Stone ↓

Sun, Dec 26 2021, 12:43 am

Thank you to your daughter for becoming an English teacher!
My daughter's fourth grade teacher was excellent.
I'm sure your dds students are lucky to have her

amother

Poppy

Sun, Dec 26 2021, 12:45 am

Sometimes I think articles like these are not based on fact but based on pressure to get salaries increased. I hate to say this... but it is supply and demand. If there literally were no teachers then schools have to raise their salaries. They cant function without teachers. But where I live, like other posters mentioned, (major frum community outside of NY and NJ) there are too many applicants.

mha3484 ↓

Sun, Dec 26 2021, 12:47 am

amother [ Stone ] wrote:

I’m in chicago and this is true here also: Finding normal limudei chol teachers is a huge huge problem. Our schools seem to find and attract limudei kodesh moros just fine. I’m happy our schools don’t hire girls straight from sem as a general rule. They typically have them be classroom assistants first.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Sun, Dec 26 2021, 12:50 am

amother [ Stone ] wrote:

Thank you to your daughter for becoming an English teacher!
My daughter's fourth grade teacher was excellent.
I'm sure your dds students are lucky to have her

I think so too! She is doing a great job BH and loving every minute!
But the contradiction of what I'm reading vs. what I'm seeing about this shortage/not shortage is really confusing me

amother

↑ OP ↓

Sun, Dec 26 2021, 12:52 am

amother [ Poppy ] wrote:

Hmm. I didn't consider that.

amother

Daisy

Sun, Dec 26 2021, 12:53 am

Anecdotally seasoned teachers are leaving the field in droves. The seminary girls that signed up for idealistic reasons can’t make ends meet on 22k a year. Even if there were a ready supply of inexperienced 19 year olds, if many jump ship after 3 to 4 years that itself is a crisis situation.

Rav Elya Brudny is telling boys he can’t recommend going out with a teachers because the finances just won’t work for a kollel family.

Houston we have a problem.

amother

Gladiolus ↓

Sun, Dec 26 2021, 12:54 am

I live in NY/NJ area. I have 2 friends who are principals. There IS a major shortage of teachers.
Look at the ads.
Not sure what would make you think otherwise.
very few post seminary girsl are interested.and ideally they should assist for a year before teaching. But even for teachers… cant find.

amother

↑ Stone ↓

Sun, Dec 26 2021, 12:57 am

One part of mypost that wasn't clear enough:

There were girls that would have been incredible morahs who didn't even apply for the job, and instead are working on an office because of pay.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Sun, Dec 26 2021, 1:06 am

amother [ Gladiolus ] wrote:

I did hear that Brooklyn is always looking for moros but that they're an exception to the rule. Based on my daughter's current experience and what she's been hearing from girls her age in our city and other cities, there are tons of girls interested, tons of girls applying, and very few girls getting the job. She also knows a couple very capable older girls (although by no means did she do an official survey Smile

) who were assistants for a few years but ended up leaving the field because they couldn't get a teaching job even after that. I don't know... what city do the principals you mentioned live in? They don't get an overwhelming amount of resumes from single girls for each advertised position?

amother

Aquamarine

Sun, Dec 26 2021, 1:14 am

amother [ Daisy ] wrote:

this is a big issuel
my son who just got engaged has a LOT of friends who will not date teachers if they want to learn long term.

Mommyg8 ↓

Sun, Dec 26 2021, 1:15 am

I feel like this thread would make more sense if people would post where they live and what kind of schools they're talking about. You know.... satmar, tag, prospect, yob... that would give some context to the posts. The way it is right now, just makes no sense.

↑ Mommyg8 ↓

Sun, Dec 26 2021, 1:16 am

delete

Last edited by Mommyg8 on Sun, Dec 26 2021, 10:39 am; edited 2 times in total

amother

Junglegreen

Sun, Dec 26 2021, 1:26 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Definitely not here in Crown Heights...it's a big issue and much worse for preschools.

↑ mha3484

Sun, Dec 26 2021, 1:26 am

My kids are in a yeshiva/bais yaakov of 1500 kids between the two schools. At one point a few years ago they have a payroll of half a million dollars per pay period. Maybe the difference is that it’s more centralized here so they can offer more competitive pay because I’d be shocked if moros here are working for $22k.

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