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I killed my wife

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↑ SixOfWands ↓

Thu, Dec 23 2021, 2:06 pm

amother [ Honeydew ] wrote:

Funny how all the pro-vaxxers are suddenly so protective of rabbonim

And funny how people who oppose the vaccine suddenly believe that rabbis are fair game for their attacks.

Personally, I don't take medical advice from rabbis.

amother

Stoneblue

Thu, Dec 23 2021, 2:11 pm

amother [ Honeydew ] wrote:

Funny how all the pro-vaxxers are suddenly so protective of rabbonim

Funny how everyone is pro daas Torah except when it doesn’t fit in with their anti-vaxxer agenda.

fleetwood ↓

Thu, Dec 23 2021, 2:20 pm

amother [ Maple ] wrote:

Only when it suits their agenda.

You mean like how suddenly Rav Kanievsky must be senile Bec he is encouraging the vaccine for kids? How a gadol hador is being talked about this way is the most hypocritical thing I've seen up to this point in terms of covid!

amother

↑ Maple

Thu, Dec 23 2021, 2:26 pm

fleetwood wrote:

I didn't say anything about Rav Kanievsky or any other Rabbi. Please don't put words in my mouth.
When a Rabbi gives a psak, it applies to his community/sect only, and not to the entire world.
In any thread whenever a poster dear mentioned that their Rav advised not to vax, that poster and their Rav were torn apart to shreds. Pro vaxxers only have respect for rabbanim that say to vaccinate. Otherwise, Rabbanim are worthless to them.

amother

Yellow

Thu, Dec 23 2021, 2:33 pm

amother [ Cyan ] wrote:

I’d love to answer that husband: you didn’t kill her. Hashem killed her. .

That kind of “logic” would mean a person never has to see a doctor. Period. Hashem will be in charge of them… no hishtadlus necessary, even when it means conforming with what the majority of daas Torah is advising.

↑ fleetwood

Thu, Dec 23 2021, 2:35 pm

amother [ Maple ] wrote:

I don't need to put words in your mouth. But your comment about pro vaxxers is funny considering what's going on now with a gadol hador...

↑ naomi2

Thu, Dec 23 2021, 2:36 pm

amother [ Maple ] wrote:

Of course people have guilt. But this doesn't mean this should be publicized and taken as a way to try to guilt people into doing something they chose not to do.

I think you misunderstood my comment. We are of the same opinion here

amother

Lightgray

Thu, Dec 23 2021, 4:00 pm

Her body was “full of chemicals from all the vaccines?” 😂 the diseases don’t exist anymore BECAUSE OF VACCINES.

This comment is very tin-foil-hat.

amother [ Linen ] wrote:

I know someone who says they killed their daughter
Because they gave her all the vaccines for everything to protect her from all the sicknesses that don't even exist anymore and her body was full of chemicals from all the vaccines and then she got cancer and died in her low fifties leaving lots of orphans.

It's a lose-lose, whichever way you slice it is not simple.

amother

↑ Periwinkle ↓

Thu, Dec 23 2021, 4:14 pm

amother [ Maple ] wrote:

I don't remember a single poster ever giving an actual name of a Rav who said straight out to absolutely not vax. It was always an unnamed Rabbi who they refused to specify. The closest anyone came to this was naming some Rabbanim who said people should consult their doctor before deciding whether or not to vax.

Can you find a thread where someone actually named a Rav and then had posters "tearing" his name to shreds? As per your own description.

amother

↑ Coral ↓

Thu, Dec 23 2021, 5:03 pm

amother [ Periwinkle ] wrote:

THIS

amother

↑ Honeydew ↓

Thu, Dec 23 2021, 5:11 pm

amother [ Yellow ] wrote:

No. You do what you consider safe and normal hishtadlus. Which for many people is not vaccinating.

If you do what you consider is the right thing in hishtadlus, and someone is still niftar, that is not anyone's fault.

No negligence, no abuse, no homicide.

Time to realize that we don't run the world.

amother

↑ Honeydew ↓

Thu, Dec 23 2021, 5:13 pm

amother [ Stoneblue ] wrote:

Funny how everyone is pro daas Torah except when it doesn’t fit in with their anti-vaxxer agenda.

First of all, we never asked rabbonim for medical advice.

Second of all, our local rov is not pro-vax for people who are not high risk.

amother

NeonYellow

Thu, Dec 23 2021, 5:17 pm

SixOfWands wrote:

There's a video of him speaking -- its in Hebrew, but I assume its what they said.

The agenda here would seem to be discrediting him.

Even videos can be misleading - I’m sure you heard about the video where the WHO director says on the video that “in some countries, the vaccine is given to kill children which isn’t right”.

Most people would say it was a slip of the tongue.

amother

↑ Coral

Thu, Dec 23 2021, 5:26 pm

amother [ NeonYellow ] wrote:

can u post a link?

amother

Burlywood

Thu, Dec 23 2021, 5:47 pm

I have a close family friend who died of breast cancer years ago. She felt a lump, her doctor said come back in a few months and she chose to be an ostrich instead of being proactive. Because ven back then the prognosis for early detection was fair - good.
Somehow we have to balance that this was her time, but it had to happen in a way that gave the family agmas nefesh. Which they don't have to carry all their life. It's probably enough by now.
And the other message was, don't be an ostrich.
It sounds like 2 opposing thoughts but they're not.

This man needs to know that Hashem wanted her now, but He wanted to bring her ina way that would lead to agmas nefesh. I feel for him.
If he feels that spreading the message of vaxing now is valuable, he should continue.

amother

Ultramarine

Thu, Dec 23 2021, 7:05 pm

I've witnessed the opposite.
My neighbor, a young sweet mother of many children had Cancer l"a but was doing amazing.
She took the covid shot and got sick the following morning. She passed away the same week.

It's all from above, and we do our Hishtadlus according to our knowledge we have at the moment.

amother

Seablue ↓

Thu, Dec 23 2021, 8:09 pm

amother [ Honeydew ] wrote:

The whole message of corona, which many people seem to be missing, is "Ein Od Milvado".

Hashem is showing us loud and clear.

We do what we feel is best and that is normal hishtadlus.

Hashem is in charge of life and death. The sooner we get the message, the sooner the geulah will come.

I'm curious, If something comes up, say cancer ch''v, do you say "I do what I feel is best and that is Hishtadlus"? I'm asking earnestly. I've always thought that normal hishtadlus is to go to your doctor, ask him for his professional opinion (a doctor is a shliach from Hashem) and follow his advice without too many cheshbonos. Even if the cancer treatment is new, you would perhaps get a second opinion from another doctor, but ultimately hishtadlus is to follow the doctors' advice. Is it hishtadlus to make medical decisions on your own, without a doctor's input?

Correct me if I'm wrong.

amother

Aquamarine

Thu, Dec 23 2021, 8:20 pm

amother [ Seablue ] wrote:

You're not wrong. You're right. We are commanded by Hashem to take care of the bodies He gave us to clothe our souls with in this world. We're supposed to try to watch our health. Rabbis in our generation accept the word of doctors and consult with medical experts regarding health matters. In cases where there are differing medical opinions, Rabbis follow the majority of the best experts that can be found, not just with regard to vaccines but in all matters of health.
If a person smoked against his doctor's advice and died of a disease caused by cigarettes destroying his lungs of course we believe in Hashem and know the person died by the hand of Hashem, but we can also realize what the person did was wrong. It's not for us to judge or blame, we don't know the struggles of the smoker, but we also aren't supposed to whistle past the graveyard and pretend smoking is okay.
People are good at manipulating information to their own benefit and the anti vaxxers are no exception. They'll try to convince you that you're lacking in Emunah if you take care of yourself. Lucky us, we have doctors and rabbis to consult with and we don't have to fall victim to brainwashing by cults. We all know where that road takes us.

amother

↑ Linen ↓

Thu, Dec 23 2021, 8:27 pm

amother [ Ultramarine ] wrote:

I'm sure if someone convinced her then they too feel that they killed her
So sad

So far the only thing I learned is don't convince anyone about anything let everyone decide for themselves unless they're you're (young) child then someone needs to decide for them and you have no choice.

amother

Seafoam

Thu, Dec 23 2021, 8:32 pm

I find this article disgusting.

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