Will a Moore win wreck the GOP?

↑ SixOfWands ↓

Tue, Dec 12 2017, 6:38 pm

Squishy wrote:

So who do you think can fix this domestic problem?

The solution for local problems usually needs to start at the local level. Eg, local health clinics need to be established to deal with hookworm. That's not going to come from Congress.

Yes, there can and should be federal funding for environmental remediation, infrastructure, and to alleviate poverty (but given the current makeup of Congress, I wouldn't count on it no matter who is elected). But it would be naive to think that a single person in Congress, even one who supports it, can create this.

↑ southernbubby ↓

Tue, Dec 12 2017, 6:46 pm

SixOfWands wrote:

I can't find it now, but several years ago, a group of inner city West Philadelphia women worked very hard to get a Shop Rite grocery store in their neighborhood when all that there had been was bodegas that sold junk food. These women were very proud to push grocery carts through the aisles of their neighborhood's very own grocery but it took their hard work to make it happen.

We have to find leaders who will empower locals to work on their own problems.

↑ SixOfWands ↓

Tue, Dec 12 2017, 6:58 pm

southernbubby wrote:

Rahm Emmanuel, as mayor of Chicago, worked to bring supermarkets into the inner city.

↑ PinkFridge ↓

Tue, Dec 12 2017, 7:33 pm

youngishbear wrote:

This is the kind of thinking that got us Trump.

When you vote for someone, it is interpreted as an endorsement of the whole package. Who would not allow him to serve, if the people make him their choice?

No, people voted for Trump knowing he would get inaugurated. They were hoping for an eventual impeachment. This would be more imminent.

↑ PinkFridge ↓

Tue, Dec 12 2017, 7:35 pm

SixOfWands wrote:

Think what you want.

There are Moore supporters who are voting for him because they applaud the fact that he defied a court order by keeping up a display of the Ten Commandments (the Xtian version, of course).

There are Moore supporters who are voting for him because they agree that the last time that America was “great [was] at a time when families were united — even though we had slavery. They cared for one another.” And if you think that, you really, really can't vote for the guy who prosecuted the monsters who bombed the 16th Street Baptist Church in 1963, killing four girls during church services.

There are are Moore supporters who believe that George Soros, like all Jews, are "going to the same place that people who don't recognize God and morality and accept his salvation are going.... And that's not a good place."

There are Moore supporters who really don't care if he molested teenage girls, just like they didn't really care if Trump molested women.

And remember that Trump endorsed him. "We need Republican Roy Moore to win."

And I highly doubt that there would be an ethics probe. Because if there's an ethics probe of Moore, its a signal that there should be an ethics probe of Trump. And the Republicans will never, ever allow that.

And no, it won't hurt the Republicans. Because the fact is that Roy Moore stands for what so many of them believe.

Yeah, people don't know all the good reasons not to vote for him before the whole molesting issue.
It is sobering.

↑ PinkFridge ↓

Wed, Dec 13 2017, 9:56 am

SixOfWands wrote:

People voted for Trump because they wanted Trump to win.

Sure. But I was just describing the difference between reluctant Trumpers and reluctant Moore voters. There was a lot of talk about Mitch McConnell blocking a Moore confirmation if he was elected; that is, he would never make it to his elected seat. In the case of Trump, anyone who voted for him assumed he would get elected but either hoped that he would shape up and act presidential, or harbored some secret hope that he would ultimately do something that would get him impeached.

↑ SixOfWands ↓

Wed, Dec 13 2017, 10:11 am

PinkFridge wrote:

I disagree.

People voted for Trump because they believed in him, and wanted his brand of governance. They got what they wanted.

As to McConnell, the idea that he would not have allowed Moore to be seated is another fairy tale that Republicans tell reluctant voters. McConnell said, "I'm going to let the people of Alabama make the call." He did add that there could be an Ethics Committee investigation, but that's a far cry from not allowing Moore to be seated. But thankfully, we don't have to worry about that now.

People really believe that giving tax breaks to the wealthiest Americans and to corporations, while rolling back medical benefits to the working poor (“We're going to have to get back next year at entitlement reform, which is how you tackle the debt and the deficit.... Frankly, it's the health care entitlements that are the big drivers of our debt, so we spend more time on the health care entitlements — because that's really where the problem lies, fiscally speaking.” Paul Ryan, December 2017) is how you best serve the people of this country. I'm not looking forward to seeing it.

↑ southernbubby ↓

Wed, Dec 13 2017, 10:26 am

SixOfWands wrote:

While there were plenty of Trump supporters who wore the garb (hats and shirts with make America Great Again) there were lots of others who voted for him very reluctantly and only because they really did see Hillary as crooked. These people hoped that Trump would shape up or ship out.

I am also not sure that the tax breaks for corporations were the incentive either for why the rural poor and working class of small towns voted for Trump. The working poor who voted for him believed that he would keep factories and coal mines open or have them re-opened. These workers were promised a relief from the skyrocketing premiums and high deductibles of Obamacare.

The black community was encouraged to give Trump a chance with "what have you got to lose?"

↑ imasoftov ↓

Wed, Dec 13 2017, 10:31 am

southernbubby wrote:

Moore is demanding a recount and Trump now reminds everyone that this is why he supported Luther Strange in the primary but still feels it was wrong of everyone to support Jones.

Moore never conceded and the race was close.

As a number of websites and twitter feeds are saying today, it's not just in elections that he has trouble taking "no" for an answer.

↑ Fox ↓

Wed, Dec 13 2017, 1:18 pm

All's well that ends well. Something for everyone! Well, maybe except Moore himself, and I suspect that any tears wept on his behalf are of the crocodile variety.

The GOP dodged a public relations problem. Alabama dodged a Senator who reminds people uncomfortably of George Wallace. Trump got an opportunity to say, "I told you so." The MSM got several opportunities to demonstrate their partisanship. Sanders got an opportunity to aggravate Acosta.

Well, that last one wasn't really related to the Alabama election, but any opportunity to abuse the self-important White House press corps is always welcome.

But these side comments about Republicans targeting the poor are just nonsense. Save it for term papers submitted to post-modernist professors who like that kind of stuff. Economic trends over the last 50 years show that the rich have gotten richer, and the poor have gotten richer, too. The best thing you can do for the poor is to try not to be one of them. The second best thing you can do is help them not be poor.

Democrats and the left -- particularly under President Obama -- don't seem to understand that free health care, free higher education, free day care, free food and shelter, and free social services of all types do not constitute compassion. They constitute slavery. It's also puzzling how much responsibility the left wishes to give government, given how little they care for the current administration.

If you oppose slavery, you are naturally suspicious about arrangments in which you are asked to give up degrees of autonomy in exchange for three meals a day, a place to sleep, and a promise of medical treatment. Those kinds of deals, whether entered into voluntarily or not, have a rather bad history.

Jeanette ↓

Wed, Dec 13 2017, 1:21 pm

Quote:

If Jones wins, it will be seen in Alabama, the South, and much of the rest of the country as a case of liberal elites once again condescendingly telling others what’s best for them. And that will go a long way to energize conservatives in 2018.

Pretty condescending to tell Alabama that their democratically elected representative could not possibly be a legitimate choice.