What I learned from raising fish for food.

chani8 ↓

Tue, Sep 27 2016, 4:59 am

My son wanted to make an aquaponics system, which is a system that has a fish tank and a garden, and the water circulates between the two. The water from the fish feeds the plants, and the plants filter the water, which then goes back to the fish.

I wanted to raise fish that we could eat, and my son wanted the garden to consist of edible plants.

While DS worked on building the system, I researched about raising fish for food. I learned a lot, and was really excited about the idea of Eating humanely killed fish. The question I asked myself was, can I actually kill the fish? Can I do it? My thought was, it's just a fish, so sure, what's so hard about that. I've never raised fish before, but they seemed little more than, let's say, bugs. I can kill bugs, no problem.

Let me backtrack to explain that our first aquaponics system was going to be quite small, only about 5 gallons. So we could only put 3 small fish in there. We filled the plant tray with lovely herbs. Tossed a guppy into the fish tank, and there we were, doing the aquaponics thing.

I can imagine you asking, "A guppy? Really??" Yes, a guppy. Because believe it or not, guppies are edible. Fried guppies are available at bar/restaurants in Brazil, from what I've read.

The guppy did fine for a few days, until she found a place in the tank to get stuck....by the pump. And after getting her wounded body out of there, she hobbled into the only other place in the tank to get stuck in. I got her out and it was clear she was dying. We fixed the tank so there would be no more accidents, but it was too late for this guppy. The kind thing to do would be to put her out of her misery. I followed google instructions on how to humanely kill a fish. I put her in a glass jar and gave her cloves for painkiller and when she went to sleep, I gave her enough painkiller to kill her. There. Job done. And then, I closed her in her little glass coffin and set it aside to go out to the dumpster.

And several days later I asked myself, why didn't I eat her??? shock

I had a dead fish and I didn't eat her. Instead, I practically gave her a ceremony.

I bought two more (pregnant) guppies and they've made enough babies that we have to build a bigger aquaponics system right now. I got to see mama guppies give birth to their teeny tiny babies. I've been observing them, as those babies grow up. I'm fascinated when they come to me, when it's feeding time. I put my finger in the water and they nip at it. They seem to not be afraid of me.

And to think I'd eat them?! OMGosh, No Way. They're so precious!

So, instead of succeeding at becoming a fish farmer. . . I'm becoming a vegetarian. Seriously.

Not just because of my fish, but also because of my quail.

MitzadSheini ↓

Tue, Sep 27 2016, 5:17 am

Very cool story.

I didn't get the bit about the quail though.

Also you're right.... Much easier to cook and eat a fillet of chicken breast that comes wrapped in plastic than to deal with a real live animal or fish.

Last edited by MitzadSheini on Tue, Sep 27 2016, 5:33 am; edited 1 time in total

↑ chani8 ↓

Tue, Sep 27 2016, 5:33 am

MitzadSheini wrote:

Very cool story.

I didn't get the bit about the quail though.

I'm not a vegetarian, yet. I wanted to raise fish and quail as potential meat for my family. Meat that I'd know was raised humanely and slaughtered humanely.

However, after farming quail for eggs, and caring for these live beings, I find it hard to imagine killing them, no matter how humanely.... just because I want to eat meat. As if I need to eat meat so badly that I have to take the life of another living being.

↑ MitzadSheini ↓

Tue, Sep 27 2016, 5:35 am

Are you ok with the eggs? Why, or why not?

I reckon a lot more people would be vegetarian if you couldn't just buy meat ready to cook

↑ chani8 ↓

Tue, Sep 27 2016, 5:43 am

I love the eggs. They are precious to me. I thank my quail for the eggs.

I have to buy eggs from the store, though, and those I feel guilty about. How are the farmers treating those egg layers? Not good, as far as I've learned. Even organic and even free range, are not treated as well as they should be.

My quail have a large area, get to run around. Finding their eggs is like a daily egg hunt for me. They leave their eggs wherever they happen to pop out. One quail is quite friendly, and runs up to me, pecks at my toes, and follows me around to be petted. Once she flew straight up into my husband's arms to get his attention!

↑ MitzadSheini ↓

Tue, Sep 27 2016, 5:49 am

Very interesting. It's great that you have been so successful.

Did you ever get to do shiluach hakan?

↑ chani8 ↓

Tue, Sep 27 2016, 6:23 am

We've had to do shiluach haken with our parakeets and love birds.

The quail dont seem so connected to their eggs. Though I am conscious of their proximity to the eggs and try to distract them away so that they dont see me take them.

Fox

Tue, Sep 27 2016, 8:37 am

Wow! This is so inspiring and thought-provoking! Please keep telling us more about your experiences.

greenfire

Tue, Sep 27 2016, 8:57 am

quite interesting ... sonny boy once wanted to eat a goldfish simply because he found out they were kosher [now he buys goldfish to feed his pet snake]

as far as you eating the injured guppy - I wonder if it would be considered a 'mum' and therefore not kosher - the funeral in the jar sounds much more a pleasant ending

when it comes to being humane I have always been a vegetarian at heart ... mostly because we lived on a farm & then you see what you are eating up close & personal [since pesach I've been staying clear of meat and chicken]

I cannot kill a bug ... I wouldn't want to kill a fish & I have always stayed away from chicken near kapporos

so how are your herbs doing ? I love the aquaponics idea - kool

Laiya

Tue, Sep 27 2016, 10:46 am

Loved this story, Chani8 you're a great story teller! And I totally relate to not wanting to eat the fish Tongue Out

Rubber Ducky

Tue, Sep 27 2016, 11:15 am

DS#1 and wonderful DDIL have an aquarium. They started with one pair of fish (not sure what kind) and it is quickly filling up with baby fishes. When the babies get bigger they will have their own babies.

If you don't go fishing, how will you handle the population explosion? DS#1 is planning to buy an aquatic frog who would appreciate some fresh sashimi.

PinkFridge ↓

Tue, Sep 27 2016, 11:47 am

Very interesting! Reminds me of a story in Miriam Zakon's Jerusalem (edit here to correct title) Diaries about a family that was caring for a lamb for its Rosh Chodesh seudah but one of the children gets very attached to it. In the end, they serve....chicken. And she tucks right in.
I can't really analyze that right now, but "food" for thought.

Last edited by PinkFridge on Wed, Sep 28 2016, 7:17 pm; edited 1 time in total

miami85 ↓

Tue, Sep 27 2016, 1:28 pm

Kind of reminds me of when I took a cake decorating class, and I would make these beautiful creations that people wouldn't want to eat. Part of what my instructor told me is that, "Cakes are for eating. Take a picture and cut the cake." When you make or raise something you become invested in it and therefore it can be hard to "destroy it". One time I was at an event where I made the cake and no one wanted to cut the cake until I did. I had mentally prepared myself, took a picture before, I have the memory, but no one wants to keep a stale cake--its meant to be eaten and enjoyed. So too animals. Hashem decreed that kosher animals (post Noach) are meant to be eaten and enjoyed. Most people don't want to do it b/c of the blood and complicated nature of it more than they get attached to a cow. Perhaps that's a reason why cats, dogs, and maybe horses aren't kosher--b/c we can get attached to these animals and its not good for us to eat something that we can get connected to. I haven't seen too many develop attachments to sheep, cows or goats. Even fish. I personally have fish and don't find myself getting too attached to them--but it is a little depressing to see them die. But that's because I was giving of my time and investing in it, and it didn't make it. L'havdil, if an infant doesn't live (chas v'shalom--not trying to make light of the situation, but showing an example). It can't "hug you back", it doesn't "say I love you", they can barely smile!--but a mother just invested "9 months" of her body and strength to give it life and was looking forward to a whole life with it and therefore it's a great tragedy. Thus, perhaps because you attempted to nurture this guppy back to health you viewed as something worth investing in--not for food. I'm also willing to bet it had more to do with the fact that it's not a food in your vernacular like salmon or tuna or even carp or trout. Those fish swim in multitudes and it's almost to say "what's minus 1?"

Last edited by miami85 on Tue, Sep 27 2016, 3:35 pm; edited 2 times in total

Miri1 ↓

Tue, Sep 27 2016, 2:49 pm

I couldn't have eaten it either, especially after caring for it. Though I'm sure that when a person has a livelihood to be made from the animals he raises, he will get past this.

Practically, (and sorry if I'm being blunt) whatever the guppy was given to kill it would be in your dinner I'd assume.

↑ miami85

Tue, Sep 27 2016, 3:34 pm

Miri1 wrote:

Cloves? I use cloves in my poached salmon--not a big deal. What's maybe more of a big deal is that these "cheapy" fish--while meant as "feeder fish" are not intended for HUMAN consumption and thus may be ailing with other issues from the pet store. They are notorious for having parasites.

↑ Miri1

Tue, Sep 27 2016, 3:52 pm

miami85 wrote:

Oh, I must have misread, I thought it she got an additional painkiller.

But yes your second point also occurred to me. Like in the horse meat scandal.

Iymnok

Wed, Sep 28 2016, 4:00 am

)The mitzvah of shiluach haken is on kosher wild birds, the nest must be in a Hefner location. If on your windowsill, you must mafker it before the egg is laid. It does not apply to domestic birds.
So there is no mitzvah of shiluach haken for chickens or parakeets. (There was s a mitzvah of feeding them before you eat, so there are other mitzvahs to do with them Smile

)

↑ MitzadSheini

Wed, Sep 28 2016, 4:18 am

Thanks lymnok I didn't know about that

imasinger

Wed, Sep 28 2016, 6:23 am

Reminds me of a song I do with some of my kindergarten classes around Thanksgiving.

TTO "Darling Clementine":

Albuquerque is a turkey, and he's feathered, and he's fine,
And he wobbles, and he gobbles, and he's absolutely mine.

He's the best pet you can get yet, better than a dog or cat,
He's my Albuquerque turkey, and I'm awfully proud of that.

Now my Albuquerque turkey is so happy in his bed,
Cause for our Thanksgiving dinner, we had pizza instead.

rowo

Wed, Sep 28 2016, 7:51 am

Reminds me of a story of the Baal Shem tov (I think)
after he passed away another shochet took over his shchita post.
On seeing the new shochet in action one of the workers said he wasn't doing it correctly. The shochet was confused because he was certain he knew what to do correctly.
The worker explained, before shechting each animal the Baal Shem tov would cry.

I love this anecdote, we are allowed to eat animals and we are told the correct way to do it. But we are still taking another life