PSA- you want to send to a certain school? Follow the rules

↑ louche ↓

Thu, Nov 05 2009, 1:34 pm

amother wrote:

OK- so you are saying that mothers can show up at school with a sheitel, long skirt, stockings etc. AND ONCE THEY LEAVE THE SCHOOL THEY CAN WEAR SHORT SKIRTS, COVER 1/2 THEIR HAI,R WEAR TIGHT SHIRTS, SLITS UP TO THIE "TUCHIS", AND LOOK LIKE SLUTS?
I DONT THINK SO!
HOW CAN THAT BE OK?

First of all, there's no need to shout.
Second of all, your tone is really offensive.
Third of all, there is a middle ground between sheitel-long skirts-stockings and looking like a slut. (BTW, how do you know what a slut looks like?)
Fourth of all, if parents conduct themselves appropriately while in school or at school-related events, the school really has no right to snoop into their extracurricular lives.
Fifth of all, why are you picking on that tired old bugbear tzniut? Why not ask if it's OK for parents to eat tref so long as they send kosher lunches to school?
Sixth of all, no one is saying that dressing immodestly is OK, but that's between the parents and the KBH. what people are saying is that for the school to dictate what people do in their own homes is decidedly NOT OK. .

↑ amother ↓

Thu, Nov 05 2009, 1:40 pm

amother wrote:

Why is it ok to have internet when the school clearly does not want parents to have it but how a person dresses makes you clearly upset?

haha good point...

if she is sending her kids to a school where wearing a slit makes you a slut and wh***, then I am assuming internet is assur too.why are you here amother?

No, internet is not assur. It is used for work related purposes and the school is fully aware.
Nor did the school ever assur internet across the board.

↑ amother ↓

Thu, Nov 05 2009, 2:00 pm

When I used the wotd "slut" I was referring to a woman who has a slit up to her.....

I did not imply that anyone who wears a shorter skirt, or does not cover her hair or elbows is a slut, nor is one that wears flip flops. I apologize if I came across that way.

Its a certain look that people have in total- again especially how that slit looks to others from behind.

I have frum neigjhbors who wear pants, YI type, and I dont judge them on their length of sleeves or skirts. Some of them are more refined than so called "frum" people.

I was trying to portray a certain image, and if people got offeneded I apologize as IRL I have respect for Jewish people of all types.

Rachie1

Thu, Nov 05 2009, 2:07 pm

amother wrote:

Lady Godiva wrote:

amother wrote:

Who are you to call a woman who doesn't dress like you, a slut?

This has nothing to do with me.

If a woman is wearing a tight short skirt with a slit all the way up her behind with a super tight shirt and 6 inch heels with painted toe nails- what should I call her?

Ok- I take that back- I'll call her someone who does not know better.

I apologize.

There is a woman at the place I work that one could say dresses like this. And she is the most brilliant attorney and one of the kindest people I have ever met. She is just what one might say is "eccentric." You can't define a person by what they wear.

And for all I know, her friends sit around making fun of the way people like ME dress, and I would totally expect her to come my defense. She knows what is best for her, and I know what is best for me. What is best for someone else is not for me to decide.

chavamom ↓

Thu, Nov 05 2009, 2:12 pm

Inspired wrote:

I agree. But what is there to do when your kid goes to play at his friends house whose father is a rebbe in the school and comes home to tell you he watched a video on the computer by them, which is against he school rules. Worse imo then individual parents not following the rules is a hanhala who knows the rules are not being followed by the majority of the parent body and keeps those rules "on the books" anyway, just turning a blind eye. THAT is ridiulous.

Don't you wonder what we are teaching our kids? My kids come home from camp telling me that the girls tell them about how they put the TV in the garage when they sign the school agreement so that they can honestly say they "don't have a TV". They bring it right back in, of course. I'd rather the school not have the rule than have one that everyone knows a large percentage are fudging the truth on (and yes, none of the schools here, Bais Ya'akov included, have such a contract).

↑ Lady Godiva

Thu, Nov 05 2009, 2:15 pm

Amother, thanks for apologizing and I don't want to beat you up too much for your misuse of a word. For the future, here's the definition of "slut" from Dictionary.com:
slut
–noun
1. a dirty, slovenly woman.
2. an immoral or dissolute woman; harlot.

amother wrote:

If a woman is wearing a tight short skirt with a slit all the way up her behind with a super tight shirt and 6 inch heels with painted toe nails- what should I call her?

First of all, I doubt any woman has a slit up to her butt. I pretty much push it with about five inches below my butt. shock

NO, I don't send my daughter to your daughter's school and I don't even live in your city...so don't let your blood pressure go up.
Second of all you don't need to call anybody anything.

Last edited by Lady Godiva on Thu, Nov 05 2009, 2:18 pm; edited 2 times in total

WriterMom

Thu, Nov 05 2009, 2:16 pm

Rachie1 wrote:

Hey, I've had people tell me that I wear skirts and sleeves and modest necklines because I am repressed/ashamed of my body/brainwashed/a survivor of child abuse (!!!). I wish people could live and let live, realize that it's my thing and they don't understand, but that's ok. Casting aspersions on people - from a different background and culture, where clothing carries very different meanings - is obnoxiousm whichever wa it flows.

shalhevet ↓

Thu, Nov 05 2009, 2:25 pm

amother wrote:

But take my cousins. They live in a medium sized OOT community (meaning, not NY/LA/Miami, but a large city with numerous shuls a few restaurants, not a city with one chabad, one other shul, and a brand new mikvah) where there is ONE girls school. ONE bais Yaakov. thats it. no other option, other than a community high school that is geared toward more conservative and reform Jews (ie, maybe 5% of the student body is shomer shabbos). What if the school makes rules for the parents such as what they can wear outside school, and forbidding them from having a television in the home? What are my cousins supposed to do? send their kid to a basically non jewish private school instead? because that IS the only other option.

Of course that's not the only option. They also have the option of keeping the rules.

Quote:

So of course, they "say" they dont have a TV, when they do, and their daughters watch and keep their mouths shut.

Uch - I would worry more about teaching my children that sheker is okay, even more than the tznius/TV issue. (Ditto the families chavamom wrote about.)

↑ amother ↓

Thu, Nov 05 2009, 5:24 pm

I know what bashed user is talking about, its not so much the tznius even as to where the neck, elbows & knees are covered until. It is a minor catastophe of people who have very low self esteem and have a need to get approval from other men dressing extremely provocotively, the way self respecting women of any religion or nationalty would not dress.

But when you choose a school, you choose not only the rules but also the 'crowd'.

↑ amother ↓

Thu, Nov 05 2009, 5:34 pm

amother wrote:

I know what bashed user is talking about, its not so much the tznius even as to where the neck, elbows & knees are covered until. It is a minor catastophe of people who have very low self esteem and have a need to get approval from other men dressing extremely provocotively, the way self respecting women of any religion or nationalty would not dress.
But when you choose a school, you choose not only the rules but also the 'crowd'.

Thank you. You eloquently put it into words for me and I appreciate it. At least someone understands me!

↑ amother ↓

Thu, Nov 05 2009, 6:39 pm

shalhevet wrote:

amother wrote:

Of course that's not the only option. They also have the option of keeping the rules.

Quote:

So of course, they "say" they dont have a TV, when they do, and their daughters watch and keep their mouths shut.

Uch - I would worry more about teaching my children that sheker is okay, even more than the tznius/TV issue. (Ditto the families chavamom wrote about.)

but shalhevet you missed my point!!!!
it is a COMMUNITY school. it was estabished many years ago to meet the needs of a diverse out of town community. where there are kollel families, and families where the moms dont cover their hair (my cousins fall somewhere in between). Just because some askonim try to make the school move to the right, means that parents should have to change their lifestyle after they themselves lived in the community for close to 50 years themselves?

I dont think the message they are sending to their kids is "sheker is okay," although I TOTALLY see the point. the tragedy is, that they have to send the message to their kids that "we believe one thing is ok in frumkeit, some very wealthy askonim who try to pus their agenda believe another thing is ok, and so in order for you to get a good education, youre going to have to play the game." THat is unfortunate, but htey ae not about to change for something they dont even believe is wrong whatsoever. I am not arguing about whether or not TVs impact kids. I dont have a TV. But they are ok wih it, and that is their lifesyle. and when there is one school, I personaly think it is absurd.

tzipp ↓

Thu, Nov 05 2009, 9:37 pm

Inspired wrote:

I totally agree, what is the point of making rules that ppl can't/wont keep? It must be a deeper problem though of ppl setting such high platitudes for themselves that they know inside they can't reach. Having a completely ascedic lifestyle is not for many ppl, and is not "halacha", sure many ppl have that derech, but many of them can't live up to it... Sorry if I sound judgemental- I understand why some ppl choose that lifestyle but a rule of no vieos (kids, appropriate of course) ever, seems pretty extreme especially when the school is demanding it, as opposed to a individual decision. I agree with the premise of this thread completely though. Children will be very confused if they are getting different messages from school and home. We all have a balance of what we think is ok and what we don't, we should be sending our kids to a school that agrees, promote, or at the very least tolerates our values.