Husband is too heavy handed and is turning off our daughter

amother

Sat, Sep 23 2023, 10:13 pm

Even though my husband and I are makpid that our daughters wear tights or knee socks, we send them to a school where all of the other girls wear short socks (outside of school). This has not been a problem for most of my daughters, but one of them has recently been wanting to dress less “bais yaakov style” and more like her friends. She is a really good girl and has beautiful middos bH and I get the most incredible reports about her from her teachers and principals. However, my husband has been reacting very heavy-handedly toward her whenever she doesn’t fit the mold of our family. So, even though she is not a rebellious type of child, I am afraid that he is pushing her farther and farther away from what we want and he is really turning her off from frumkeit. This past Friday night, she was invited to sleep over at a neighbors house (who also wears short socks) after the Seuda, and my husband refused to walk her in the dark because she was wearing short socks. I was not feeling well, but had to peel myself out of bed to walk her because I didn’t feel comfortable with her walking alone in the dark. This is only the most recent example. But he has thrown her out of the dining room and not let her be at the shabbos table numerous times because of this. Does anyone have any advice? Or any ideas of a rav who I could speak to?

amother

Lotus

Sat, Sep 23 2023, 10:18 pm

I think it's really important that you stand up for her. Let DH know that he makes negative comments or throws her off the table then you are leaving the table as well.
You are 100% correct that he will turn her off to Yiddishkeit.

amother

Black

Sat, Sep 23 2023, 11:15 pm

Your husband needs to realize that his method won’t Help and could actually backfire.
Your daughter will iyH come to do the right thing on her own, if she isn’t pressured.
I had similar with my daughter. We preferred that she not wear short socks after bas mitzva and she just wasn’t ready for it. Her friends also wore short. We spoke to a rav and decided to not say anything further to her about it. She knew what we preferred already anyway. Without any pressure, and without us saying anything, after a few months and her maturing at her own pace, on her own she started wearing long socks with short skirts. And short socks only with long skirts.

familyfirst

Sat, Sep 23 2023, 11:47 pm

He sent her out of the dining room at age 12???
Refused to walk her?

Over the top

And he should have thought of this. Write sending to such a school

He will ruin his relationship with her. Please stand by her so she knows she has someone who loves her unconditionally

amother

Bottlebrush

Sun, Sep 24 2023, 12:03 am

All his behavior is doing is teaching your daughter that he can only love her if she’s some robotic slave that obeys his every whim. A child will not respect a parent that they feel doesn’t love them. If he maintains this behavior, she’ll eventually try to be the opposite of what he stands for.
You should speak up for her so she knows that her rights are being stood up for and that at least one parent is capable of loving her for who she is.

amother

Banana

Sun, Sep 24 2023, 12:30 am

My DH is similar, and would not allow even our daughters at 3 go outside in *knee high socks*- only pantyhose. I went to a Rav but unfortunately he agreed with DH. I think it's important to figure out what the norm is where you live and try to adjust yourselves, whether that means him chilling out or you making changes.

I wouldn't take other girls into consideration. My DDs have friends who are ready big girls and they sit with their legs splayed and everything on show and nobody says anything. Let them do what they want, but dd also needs to learn that halacha doesn't come from what their friends do.

WhatFor

Sun, Sep 24 2023, 12:47 am

Op, you need to take a stand against your DH. He's being "machmir" (if you want to call it that) in certain areas in a way that requires him to be kal in areas that really matter.

He'll refuse to company your DD and let her walk alone in the dark, increasing the risk to her safety because he doesn't like the length of her socks? He'd prefer not to see her at all than to see her in short socks?

This is communicating to her that his love is conditional on her following a very narrow path. It may not be conscious on DH's part, but these attitudes tend to be more about control and ego than Torah and chinuch. I'm sorry for all of you but you need to put your foot down.

amother

Sun, Sep 24 2023, 12:02 pm

Thank you everyone for your responses and your support. I do standup for my daughter. Even though tznius is extremely important to me, and, as the mother, I take personal pride in my daughters being makpid in tznius, my children all know that I love and accept them unconditionally even if I disagree with a choice that they make. I don’t know if my husband would accept what any rav says because my mother in law (my husbands own mother) once suggested a rav who would be good to speak to, and my husband said that he is no good. B”H I have the most supportive, amazing mother in law who totally disagrees with my husband’s tactics and feels that the shabbos table should be an inviting place for all of the kids and that no one should be thrown away, and she fears that the kids will no longer want to be frum when they’re older and that he’ll be sorry, but he doesn’t really listen to her either.

familyfirst

Sun, Sep 24 2023, 1:36 pm

If enough family members support her unconditionally, as in you and mother in law, she will know that the issue isn’t yiddishkeit but her father. She will not blame Yiddishkeit but it may affect her relationship with him.

behappy2

Sun, Sep 24 2023, 2:00 pm

Honestly, turning her away from yiddishkeit is my least concern. He is being abusive to her. So painful.

I would take him to a Rav of his choosing to discuss the right way to deal with it. Absolutely NO RAV will condone the way your husband has been dealing with it.

It's not about allowing or not allowing her to wear short socks. It's about how he reacts to what she is doing that is a problem.

If he listens to literally nobody then please get some professional advice on how to deal with this.

ETA. Just reread your post. I thought I read that he threw her out of the house and didn't want to walk her home at night. Now I see that he threw her out of the dining room and didn't want to walk her TO her friend. That's a little more grey. It's all in the delivery. And you're right it might make her feel yucky about yiddishkeit. I still think it's good to seek council but I also think that there's a lot you can do as a mother to make up for his approach. It's a hard place to be to raise a kid to be different than their peers.

Last edited by behappy2 on Sun, Sep 24 2023, 2:22 pm; edited 1 time in total

amother

Thistle

Sun, Sep 24 2023, 2:10 pm

giftedmom wrote:

I wasn’t expecting the Monsey reference. With such a variety of schools why would you send to one where your kids are forced to be different?

I can't answer for OP, but I raised my kids in Monsey and was not able to get my girls accepted in schools that were our level of frumkeit. The Monsey school situation was much easier then, so I can imagine how hard it is today.

amother

Lightcyan

Sun, Sep 24 2023, 2:27 pm

You need to ask a shailah about the socks, it's not so clear cut. Certainly she can be in the dining room in short socks, there would be no issue with that. Unless you had male guests?

Your husband needs to follow rabbinical guidance on this and not just shoot from the hip.

Highstrung

Sun, Sep 24 2023, 2:44 pm

amother Thistle wrote:

This. I wear stockings only. Always wore tights my entire life . My daughter is in a school more to the left. Schools that have the hashkafos I actually follow, don’t accept my kids. So my kids end up in schools more to the left. I know that along with that , these challenges will arise. I know that I can’t expect my daughter to dress like me if I send her to a school that does otherwise. I was willing to accept that and know that my child is in a school where she is loved and cherished for who she is and is being taught a love for yiddishkeit.