Bad Guests | Imamother

penina

Sun, Apr 06 2008, 8:27 pm

My husband and I are not in kiruv, by a long shot, but we tend to be the only totally "frum" people in our group of friends so we have people over that laregely aren't religious. Deep down, we know people come to our house to get a piece of that "homey" Jewish feeling that perhaps they miss now that they've moved out or something. However, since both of us work in the Jewish world (mostly non-denominational), our friends are pretty knowledgeable about our customs such as handwashing, bentching, and whatnot. With that said, I had a very strange episode with a regular guest to my house this Shabbos:

This girl (24ish) showed up at my house where she comes often wearing jeans and a T-shirt, which is fine by us (it's not our job to judge what people put on in the morning) but she usually makes a point of wearing dress clothes because we're wearing them.

Since Shabbos had just come in, we were taking a break by sitting on the couch and I invited her to sit down, usually we chat for a few minutes before dinner so that I don't feel like a diner line-chef. About a minute after sitting down she said "is dinner ready yet?" and I was pretty taken aback. Thinking she was probably hungry I invited her to the table.

I poured out kiddush like usually and she didn't stand. She knows we stand, we were both standing, but she wouldn't do it and I didn't feel comfortable making her. During kiddush my husband stumbled a few times on his words (he sometimes gets nervous reading in front of guests) and she actually LAUGHED AT MY HUSBAND!!! Exploding anger

When we got up to wash I made a vocal hint that she should wash and she refused to do so. I washed and went on as usual but I was totally weirded out. This is a girl who washes every Shabbos at my house, what's the deal?

During dinner, she was rude, and made comments about not being able to stay long and rushing which made me rush. Once she'd finished her dinner and we were lingering over dinner convorsation, she just got up and sat on our couch, skipping bentching. My husband and I bentched quickly so we wouldn't feel rude to our guest. She left soon after.

I'm trying to be dan l'chaf zechut and I want to try and understand. I'm sure this sort of reversal of behaviors isn't so uncommon but I can't understand what made her turn. It's not like we want her to be frum, we don't really care, we just invite her over because we know she's alone in the city and she lives a few blocks from us and I like her. We're actually somewhat friends. It just makes no sense.

How do you handle bad guest situations like this? Have you ever had things like this happen?

shayna82

Sun, Apr 06 2008, 8:56 pm

aside from laughing at your husband, and asking if dinner is ready yet...whicn you can take either way, the other "jewish" stuff that she wasnt doing, should not be taken as an offense to you and your husband. she is obviously making a statement that she isnt ready, or she got ticked off some how.

what you should do, is maybe speak to her about it one on one, and not judge her.

shluchamom

Sun, Apr 06 2008, 9:02 pm

since I dont know you or her I will gamble and take a guess. Could it be she had a bad incident with a religious person and was testing you to see if you would still accept her as she is even if she pushes you to the limit. Kind of like a child pushing their parents to the limit to see if they'll still love them even if they misbehave.

greenfire

Sun, Apr 06 2008, 10:43 pm

was she just coming for the food ... why have her rush you ... through menuchas shabbos ... making fun of the dh too ... I would ask her what that was all about - straight out ...

louche

Sun, Apr 06 2008, 11:04 pm

shluchamom wrote:

exactly what I was thinking.

however, the part about laughing at your husband is completely unacceptable. that's not an issue of religion, that's an issue of menshlichkeit, and you should call her on it. and you should not have allowed a guest to change your routine and rush you through the meal. she's in a rush, fine, she doesn't have to stay. you have a right to manage your meal to your own satisfaction.

shluchamom

Sun, Apr 06 2008, 11:51 pm

I didn't mean to imply that her behaviour was appropriate or that you have to allow her to run the schedule of the meal. I was just trying to shed a different angle to the picture.

If it happened again I would probably say something like I see you're in a rush dont let us keep you feel free to go whenever you need to but we like to linger at our shabbos meals as shabbos is a day to spend with family and friends in a calm relaxed manner.

penina

Mon, Apr 07 2008, 11:09 am

It just seemd so strange that she would all of the sudden turn like this. She's literally been coming to my house for MONTHS. I don't take it as offensive that she didn't participate in the religious aspects of our meal, I don't expect that usually of our guests. But this is a girl who usually does these items, and does them with gusto! She's getting a graduate degree in Jewish education! It seemed totally out of character for her to act like this. I also wonder if what you said was right, if she was pushing us to see if we'd still let her come over if she refused to act accordingly.

Has anyone had any experience with people who suddenly stop participating?

mama-star

Mon, Apr 07 2008, 11:36 am

I dunno..maybe I am going out on a limb here, but maybe she started taking some medication that is making her act weird...?

anuta

Mon, Apr 07 2008, 12:29 pm

I think she wanted you to notice, and to ask what happened to her... Maybe she is in a difficult place in her life and needs somebody to reach out and help...

I would definitely say something to her right away; its just my personality, especially if we were so friendly like it seems you too are... When she asked in the beginning "where is dinner", I would totally use your "line chief" line... She is a guest, so it doesn't have to revolve around her. If she is in a hurry, she is free to leave before dessert... 8)

GAMZu

Mon, Apr 07 2008, 1:28 pm

louche wrote:

shluchamom wrote:

I totally agree with shluchamom and with louche's response, too.

Akeres Habayis

Mon, Apr 07 2008, 2:50 pm

I agree w/louche,gamzu and shluchamom

mummiedearest

Mon, Apr 07 2008, 2:58 pm

I only partially agree. no, you should not change your schedule to please her. but I don't see how calling her on her inappropriate behavior is worthwhile or even appropriate. if she does it again, stop inviting her. if she asks why you stopped inviting, tell her, but don't address something that you're not responsible to address. if your husband is upset, he can tell her as an immediate response that the laughter was uncalled for, but to rehash days later is silly and useless.

marina

Mon, Apr 07 2008, 3:15 pm

I was going to say that maybe she skipped a medication dosage that she usually takes or is going through a bad time and it would be nice to give her a call and say that "you didn't seem like your old self the other day" and see if she says anything enlightening.

penina

Tue, Apr 08 2008, 12:15 pm

I t hink you're all probably right, seems like a personal problem for her. I'll shrug it off. I'm not a confrontational person so I don't know that I'd mention anything upfront and too much time has passed and I didn't want to ruin the "peace" of Shabbos by mentioning something like this.

My husbad, BH, is a very easy-going guy who just has stage fright. He wasn't particularly offended, but I WAS! That's my husband she's laughing at and no one has a right to make someone feel badly about things like this! He's past it and shrugged it off, but it still irked me.

We're actually moving on Monday across the country, so it's not like it will be a problem again (with this girl, that is) but if we were staying, I'd probably never invite her again.

GAMZu

Tue, Apr 08 2008, 12:21 pm

Do you think she might've been upset that you are moving?

amother

Tue, Apr 08 2008, 1:05 pm

Didn't read the whole thread, but if she's a normal guest and a friend, it sounds like this behavior was completely out of character, in which case I would ask WHAT'S WRONG??? I would call her now and say "Hi, you seemed very upset on Shabbos. Do you want to talk?"

And maybe as far as Sholem Bayis is concerned, try boosting DH's ego this week to help him recover from being laughed at!!

smileyface2

Thu, Jun 05 2008, 8:10 pm

maybe she was just high on drugs or something. did she come back since? did things go back to normal?

amother

Thu, Jun 05 2008, 8:17 pm

smileyface2 wrote:

maybe she was just high on drugs or something. did she come back since? did things go back to normal?

Thank you smileyface, but the original post was written a long time ago and has been taken care of. Why don't you answer present threads instead? Very Happy