I need help on how to answer my non-frum friend

amother ↓

Thu, Jul 26 2007, 4:59 pm

I have a close friend from childhood who although is from a non-frum family, went to the same school as I and became quite frum on her own for a while. She later moved to another country, got married and does not really keep much anymore. We email each other and she was saying how she believes that when people fast and it puts them in a bad mood or makes them grouchy all day, she prefers not to fast in that case. She said isn't the whole point of the fast to make room for spiritual thoughts? What's the point of fasting if you're just thinking "when is the fast over already?"
Can anyone here give me a really good answer to send to her?
Thanks

↑ amother

Thu, Jul 26 2007, 5:44 pm

Quote:

one just doesnt suddenly fall into a spiritual mood. one needs to set aside time, and divest from everything earthly, and put in effort to work on ones spirituality.
fasting disconnects one from eating, and frees one up to connect to the spiritual. -at least thats the way I see it.
so shes claiming that she gets grouchy. WORK ON IT LADY. put some effort into it.
spirituality requires WORK.

she is not frum and noone in her family ever was or is frum, the fact that she even showed interest in yiddishkeit is in my opinion very big of her. What you just said is exactly her point, she was asking why do people who fast complain when fasting should be connecting you to the spiritual. I need a better answer then just work on it, give me a reason in her eyes why she should.

EsaEinai

Thu, Jul 26 2007, 9:44 pm

I think that what faigie was saying was that ideally, a fast is meant to be a time when we completely remove ourselves from the physical. we aren't concerned with eating or drinking, we arent concerned with our appearance, we arent concerned with anything but how we are going to make the fast a meaningful one. when my husbands rav announced how many years it has been since the churban bayis sheini after eicha and kinnos, he was sobbing uncontrollably. had an outsider come in they would have surely thought that a tragic thing had happened to this man, he was a wreck. that is what we are striving to become like on tisha b'av. it happens to be that most of us, unfortunately, arent on that level and so instead we focus on the fact that we're starving and often become grumpy as a result. true, for people like us it may make more sense to us not to fast and then not to be grumpy so we can connect, but the chachamim know best and if they say one must fast and refrain from other worldly things on tisha b'av in order tro connect, we must follow those steps so that hopefully one day we will obtain the level they had in mind for us to reach.

you can give your friend a mashal. someone might be terribly ill and as a result, make an appoitnment to see a doctor. the doctor examines the person, diagnoses them, and prescribes a medicine. the patient fills the prescription and starts taking the medication, but doesn't feel any better. in fact, the bitter taste of the medicine makes the patient feel even more ill! so should the patient stop taking the medicine? to the patient, it certainly seems that they would be better off without it, then atleast they wouldn't have to deal with the bitterness of the medication. anyone would say that this person is foolish, however. they're just the patient,they don't understand how the medicine is working, they just see some of the side-effects of the medicine. in order to become healthy again, the patient needs to follow the doctors instructions and suffer a bit of discomfort so that ultimately they can obtain good health. so too with fasting. it makes us grumpy, that can't be making us work on what we're meant to on tisha b'av, can it? we have to overcome the grumpiness, and elevate ourselves. we must keep taking the medicine so we can become spiritually healthy.

when we impose our own rationalizations on mitzvos it can be dangerous. just as doctors are trained for many years and we abide by their instructions faithfully without question because we understand they are the experts in that field, so too we must look at our rabbeim who are great torah scholars and have a much deeper understanding of the mitzvos.

I apologize for the wordy response. I hope that Hashem gives you the right words to give your friend the deeper understanding she is looking for.

mimivan

Thu, Jul 26 2007, 9:52 pm

amother wrote:

The point of the fast of Tisha b'av is not to think "spiritual thoughts" but to mourn...there is nothing wrong with being grouchy on Tisha b'av...Be grouchy all you want!

On Yom Kippur, we don't eat because we are like angels, and are above eating. There are so many tefillos on Y.K that it is possible to take one's mind off food....let's just say it is an avoda, but for Y.K if she focuses on the tefilla, she could strive to have a spiritual experience and not think about fasting.
I don't know, I actually feel more "spiritual" when fasting...(between thoughts about coca-cola)