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oohlala

Mon, Jul 01 2024, 8:21 am

amother Lightgreen wrote:

For all those screaming BALTIMORE, I wonder if we live in the same Baltimore.
OP you're right- Baltimore is diverse. BUT, to say it is full of Harry's is stretching it, by a lot. Maybe 20 years ago like you said (I don't know I didn't live here yet), but it has become very in towny in certain neighborhoods and shuls. Are there Harry's? Yes. Are there those who are not mainstream (to put it mildly)? uhhhh....Yes. I work in one of the schools. I get to see close up the dynamics. The Lakewood in town type- think cool, yeshivish are considered mainstream here.
The more colorful, interesting ones are on the fringes.
They have each other and are happy. But please don't say they're the norm, because you're setting them up for disappointment. I get to see daily how some of these kids truly suffer because their only friends are similarly interesting and they are not accepted by the popular groups. The schools try hard to help these kids but is that how you want the hanhala to think of your kid?
I'm saying it how it is. People come to Baltimore thinking that you can do what you want and you'll be accepted by one and all. You won't get eyeball rolls like in some other places, but your kids will not be becoming friends with the with-it crowd anytime soon and you will find yourself on the fringes. If you're alright with that, then by all means come.

Almost all women wear skirts and cover hair but there are a nice amount of modern families here and the more yeshivish men try not to shop at the local grocery certain days when there are lower standards of skirt lengths and hair covering.
It is not acceptable for women and girls to ride bikes- those on the fringes like I referenced earlier will do that, but are not considered mainstream.
There are kids that are homeschooled, definitely not the norm and see above about "the fringes"
You need a car
Normal to play outside. Drive up and down the streets, kids are everywhere on scooters, bikes, segways.....

It's a great place to live, but want to be honest about the reality. If you want to be nerdy, you will find like-minded people and kol hakavod to you, but don't be surprised to find that you're not considered in the box

I think Silver Spring is a great choice and also Atlanta, Cleveland, Boston, Passaic, Philadelphia from what I know.

I disagree about passaic. Similar to Baltimore, it may have been what she’s looking for 25 years ago, but definitely not now.

amother

Sunflower

Mon, Jul 01 2024, 8:28 am

Cleveland is not OOT in this way.
People WILL think of you as different if you homeschool and mom rides a bike.
(We have a few homeschoolers and those Harrys who ride a bike... Like 2/350 people.)

amother

Petunia

Mon, Jul 01 2024, 8:38 am

What about Columbus or Cinncinnati?

amother

↑ Cantaloupe ↓

Mon, Jul 01 2024, 8:43 am

amother cornflower wrote:

Baltimorean here. Most of us have no idea whag Tottini or Kidchic is. Target and Old Navy are perfect. I’ve also never heard of Harry. But I’m going to guess those here who know what those three things are… are from Lakewood/monsey/brooklyn and now live here. And are the very reason Baltimore is changing (but still an amazing place to live). Older teen girls can shop at mimis, she sells clothes in all budgets.

Lets not kid ourselves. Most of Baltimore absolutely knows what Tottini and Kidchic are. Even the "harrys". If you dont, that just means your kids are older and out of kids clothing.

Mimis used to sell $30 dresses as the standard but realized quickly that that is not what the community is looking for and now also has a $300 line. There are still those who buy the $30 dresses (myself included) but there are plenty of people buying very expensive things.

Like I said earlier, there are still pockets of Old Baltimore but it is not the general population anymore and for someone looking to move here, lets not give her an unrealistic vision if what Baltimore is.

Baltimore is a lovely out of town community with nice people. Many are fashion conscious. Many have up to date homes. Many have nice cars. There is a lot of pressure fit in even though its not like Lakewood pressure.

amother

↑ Gardenia ↓

Mon, Jul 01 2024, 9:02 am

And just throwing this perspective out there-being up to date and fashion conscious isn’t just a frum thing. There are people who only shop at Bloomingdale’s or Neiman Marcus. And I bet even in inner city public schools there are brands that you must have. It’s not a frum thing or a Harry thing. It’s how the world is.

amother

↑ cornflower

Mon, Jul 01 2024, 9:22 am

amother Cantaloupe wrote:

FWIW, I started shopping at Mimis when it was a hobby store on her bed in a guest room. Her $30 line was dresses from Ali, she sold them for fun. She saw she had a knack for this so she got higher end stuff and now is what she is today. My daughter works for her and says the lower end stuff is what sells best.

amother

Aconite ↓

Mon, Jul 01 2024, 9:32 am

amother Oak wrote:

IK you said IYKYK. BUT what about those of us who DK. Can someone be so kind and fill us in? We'd also love to K what a Harry community means.

Not OP but I laugh every time I see this topic come up because my husband is named Harry 🤣

amother

Lily

Mon, Jul 01 2024, 9:38 am

Slightly off topic, I just realized that I should start telling shadchanim that what my dd really wants is a Harry!!😏

amother

Watermelon

Mon, Jul 01 2024, 9:39 am

Northeast Philly

amother

↑ Aconite

Mon, Jul 01 2024, 9:42 am

Caveat that I don’t understand all the nuances here, but would Greater Philadelphia fit the bill? I live here, we’re modern orthodox so I’m a little clueless on the hierarchies of the yeshivish world but we seem to be getting more and more Lakewood transplants here who are looking for a different pace/less pressure. Everything you describe wanting basically fits what I see in the communities here. I’m not sure how common homeschooling is but at least in my circles there’s little judgment on schooling choices.

amother

Seablue

Mon, Jul 01 2024, 10:11 am

I am also harryish.
Silver springs sounds awesome. How much are the houses there

Beautiful

Mon, Jul 01 2024, 10:29 am

amother Lily wrote:

Slightly off topic, I just realized that I should start telling shadchanim that what my dd really wants is a Harry!!😏

Another Lily can you pm me? I have a relative who is 100% Harry

amother

Alyssum

Mon, Jul 01 2024, 10:34 am

I grew up in Baltimore and live here as an adult and it is not the community it used to be. There is a much larger contingent of in towners living here and frum brands vs target and old navy are definitely more the norm. I don't have kids in school yet but I have siblings and nieces in BY and there seems to be a fair amount of peer pressure to fit in. That being said, there is still a nice chunk of the community who can still be called Harrys so if you're okay not caring then it's a great place to live!

amother

↑ Turquoise ↓

Mon, Jul 01 2024, 10:36 am

amother Alyssum wrote:

I think that as we have been able to get frum brands online the frum brands have become more common OOT.

amother

DarkKhaki

Mon, Jul 01 2024, 10:40 am

amother Turquoise wrote:

I think that as we have been able to get frum brands online the frum brands have become more common OOT.

This.
I know everyone loves to blame it on the in towners (and then pretend they're such nice open-minded out of towers who NEVER judge or stereotype). Many in-towers I know actually moved to get away from it all and are very very simple people who did NOT bring the in town mentality with them

The reason the gashmiyus us is all over now is because of online shopping. It used to be you couldn't get Jewish brands unless you actually had brick and mortar stores that sold it. now with online shopping and social media everyone can get everything anywhere

amother

↑ Turquoise ↓

Mon, Jul 01 2024, 11:09 am

amother Seablue wrote:

I am also harryish.
Silver springs sounds awesome. How much are the houses there

Anywhere from 600k to 900k+.

amother

Khaki ↓

Mon, Jul 01 2024, 11:30 am

amother Lightgreen wrote:

Almost all women wear skirts and cover hair but there are a nice amount of modern families here and the more yeshivish men try not to shop at the local grocery certain days when there are lower standards of skirt lengths and hair covering.
.

OT but I'm confused about the above. Do different groups go to the grocery store on different days?

Ima_Shelli

Mon, Jul 01 2024, 11:31 am

women and girls can't ride bikes in Baltimore??

miami85

Mon, Jul 01 2024, 11:54 am

amother OP wrote:

Iykyk

Planning to move in a couple of years when DH finishes school. Our kids are little. We were both raised yeshivish but now consider ourselves JPF. Don't really care about restaurants or clothing stores.

ISO a community with the following specific attributes:
-Full of out-of-style nerds who don’t know or care about frum standards of materialism
-People sincere in whatever level of Judaism they’re holding at
-Majority of women wear skirts/cover hair
-Fully acceptable for women and girls to ride bikes in public
-Homeschooling accepted or at least not ostracized (not dead set on homeschooling but are curious about it as an option)
-Walkable-ish
-Normal to play outside with the other kids on the block

20 years ago I feel like the instant answer to this question would have been ‘Baltimore’ but not sure that's still the case

edit - anywhere in the US

I think South Bend can fit the bill. Don't know what your fields are, but it's a really nice OOT Yeshivish-to-JPF community. There isn't much shopping within walking distance, but people do walk, There aren't a lot of women riding bikes, but no one would say anything if you did.

mha3484 ↓

Mon, Jul 01 2024, 12:00 pm

My feeling is this and anyone can disagree.

I am in the midwest, a 12 hour drive from Lakewood etc. We have what feels to me a good balance regarding gashmius. It exists but its not in your face. I feel like the farther your willing to move out of your comfort zone materially the less you care about keeping up with every trend etc. Because if its really something super important to you can move to Baltimore and still spend a lot of time in Lakewood. Or Philly. If your moving to Chicago, Phoenix, Vegas, Denver. Dallas your making a more deliberate choice. OP I would look west.

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