I am very curious about not making aliyah

amother

Eggplant

Sun, Jun 23 2024, 4:55 pm

amother Bellflower wrote:

I wish we can come.

We are barely scraping by here. How will we manage there until we find jobs? And how will we pay rent? We have small
House here with very low mortgage.
My kids are in school. It means shaking them up and who knows if they will be ok.
My husband isnt learning and the crowd we belong to everyone learns in israel and nobody works. (Different in America) so we would hardly fit it.

Otherwise we would go today

I identify with you. We can barely manage here.
My kids struggle socially.

That said israelis have a zechus to live on our land.
I cry as I write these words.

amother

Eggplant

Sun, Jun 23 2024, 5:00 pm

Reality wrote:

Hi! So we were all that. Lived near both sides of our family, emotional support, financial help in a pinch. Me and my husband with good jobs and friends, my kids are all social and liked school and had friends.

Yet we picked up and moved and are happier then ever.

Why do you think we have none of that here in Israel?

Yes, the majority of my family lives in chul but I do have some family here.

You need to live close by to have emotional support? I speak, video call and whattsapp with my family and friends all the time.

BH, we don't need financial help now but you think it's normal not to help your family in a pinch because they moved away?

Changing jobs mid-career can definitely be challenging. I do make much less then I used to and I definitely don't have a great job at the moment. But my side job is growing and hopefully it will continue to and it is something I love and always wanted to do!

My kids made friends. I made friends. My DH found shuls he loves going to.

The way you describe it, you'd think we moved to the midbar! Hello! It's Eretz Yisrael! There's a place for all of us here!

I lived in Brooklyn. When we were thinking about moving, a tremendous amount of people were moving en-mass. One of my kids had a QUARTER of their class leave because they moved. Many of those families moved to Florida. Nobody said boo to them and tried to scare them.

Those families moving to Florida were also upending their lives. Moving away from family, moving away from the culture they knew, kids changing schools, parents changing jobs and shuls, moving to a place with completely different weather. The list is endless.

Bottom line, people do what they want to do.

I think you are only fifty percent right.
People have difficult lives.
They do things to help them cope/survive including moving to Florida.
People always comment on moving. You didn't here the Florida comments...

Reality

Sun, Jun 23 2024, 5:05 pm

amother Babypink wrote:

So in your specific case, in addition to having the external impetus of needing to move, you were also raised with a strong idealism of making Aliyah, and with parents who spoke seriously about making plans to do so. A large part of the point I was making was that in most yeshivish homes, while Israel is always loved and looked at as our final home when mashiach comes, children are NOT typically exposed to ongoing idealism about Aliyah or to concrete plans about making Aliyah. Which is why in yeshivish circles it’s mostly the people who feel something “missing” who end up making Aliyah. Like I said, in other communities where this idealism is the norm, you have very typical families making Aliyah.

Except not. My DH was raised completely differently then me. He comes from a yeshivish lite family that has little to no interest in aliyah. My husband is the one who started this process not me.

And I am finding this mystery solving about other people's real life experiences to be a little rude, quite frankly. I love how you just KNOW the reasons why this person is a misfit in society and this person isn't.

Reality

Sun, Jun 23 2024, 5:09 pm

amother Eggplant wrote:

Really?

First reaction moving to Florida: amazing weather, you're so smart getting out of this blue state to a solid red state, woo-hoo.

First reaction moving to Israel: are you crazy, what does your family think? Aren't you scared your ruining your kids lives?

I promise you I wish I was exaggerating but I'm not.

thesoundofmusic

Sun, Jun 23 2024, 5:45 pm

I am the poster.
can everyone please calm down!
I am a history teacher I love history and I am interested in antisemtism.
I wonder how it affects jews all over the world and if the fear makes them want to make aliya.
I am not judgmental of anyone who doesnt make aliya. as I wrote before I used to be and I stopped.
again - this is not a post for or against aliya. it was mere curiosity about the thought process of jews in chul and how antisem. is affecting you. and if it makes you want to pick up and leave. (like many jews have done over the course of history- for example tens of thousands of german jews left germany during the years 1933 and 1939- because of antijewish "stuff" going on. was it a full blown holocost - totally not. people were comfy but scared for what the future would bring.)
by the way. I come from a totally normal lovely family who always loved israel.
my parents made aliya when I was a young teen. they left a beautiful community, schools and shuls, lots of family members and excellant jobs and a beautiful home.
but they had tremendous passion and wanted to come. my father more than my mother but over time she fell in love with it too.
is it easy- no.
but it is our homeland as many people mentioned before.
yes arabs are very scary here and the war is terrifying but at the same time you dont fear for the future.
please stop the negativity and lets all have achdus for the safty of our soldiers.
including my brother who went into gaza today as a soldier.
chaim avraham lavi ben leah.

amother

Outerspace

Sun, Jun 23 2024, 6:46 pm

thesoundofmusic wrote:

Could you maybe say this in your OP next time so people know why you are asking

amother

Ballota

Sun, Jun 23 2024, 7:42 pm

thesoundofmusic wrote:

I am the poster.
can everyone please calm down!

yes arabs are very scary here and the war is terrifying but at the same time you dont fear for the future.
please stop the negativity and lets all have achdus for the safty of our soldiers.
including my brother who went into gaza today as a soldier.
chaim avraham lavi ben leah.

My heartfelt tefillos and brachos to your brother. May Hashem keep him safe and sound and be with him while he fights for his people, and may he safely return to your family.
As for the bolded, why is that so?
I mean, not to be fear-mongering or anything, but the anti-Israel sentiment got worse in Israel before it got worse here, and it's not showing any signs of relenting.
And even the anti-Israel sentiment in chul, as terrible as it is for our future, is IMO even worse for the future of Israel.
Hashem will protect Israel for sure, regardless of American support. As he will with us here.

amother

Ballota

Sun, Jun 23 2024, 7:54 pm

thesoundofmusic wrote:

I am the poster.
(like many jews have done over the course of history- for example tens of thousands of german jews left germany during the years 1933 and 1939- because of antijewish "stuff" going on. was it a full blown holocost - totally not. people were comfy but scared for what the future would bring.).

Regarding the bolded here, I don't get the constant comparisons to the pre-Holocaust escapes.
Jews then escaped a place where they were being persecuted to a place where they were being left alone. Pretty understandable.
Here you expect us to escape harrassment in colleges to a place of what? No harrassment? Only terrorist attacks?
I totally get your parents' and your passion for our homeland. If we ever make aliyah, and it's been on the table many times and still might very well happen, it'll be for reasons like this. But to escape danger? I'll take my suburban NY hometown for that at the moment.

amother

Blue

Mon, Jun 24 2024, 1:57 am

farm wrote:

Sorry I’m late to the party.
Curious why this disturbs you?

I'm not her, but I'd say, because that's not the reason Hashem declared EY holy and promised it to Am Yisrael. It's meant to be so much more than just a last resort after Japan, Australia and the Republic of Congo refuse your visa application in case of emergency.

Reality

Mon, Jun 24 2024, 2:02 am

amother Cobalt wrote:

Making a general observation on people leaving their lives behind is less rude than the general proclamation that only mitzvos done in Israel counts for anything.

You do realize that the "Israeli posters" are not this one monolithic entity. I am not responsible for what other posters write. The "Israeli posters" are pretty much all posting under our screennames so it should be quite easy for you to keep track. As opposed to the never ending "chutz posters" who are always too embarrassed to reveal who they are and it is impossible to keep track of who says what on a long thread.

Recap:

1. When have I ever posted that mitzvos performed outside of Israel don't count for anything?

2. Where has any other poster written that? Saying that mitzvos performed as a practice mean nothing? Since when is practice meaningless?

amother

Cobalt

Mon, Jun 24 2024, 3:58 am

Reality wrote:

I actually noticed the trend in this thread and in past threads that Israeli posters support each other's posts until they're called out on it and then suddenly they never said those things.

It is so odd that on other social media sites I am one of the biggest advocates for Israel but on this frum site I end up somehow arguing the opposite.

I regret even being here during a time that Jews around the world and in Israel are at risk sakanas nefashos. I can do better.

When moshiach comes, we will all return, not out of fear, or persuasion, or love of the land. We will come because Hashem has finally returned to His home down here.

shabbatiscoming

Mon, Jun 24 2024, 4:05 am

amother Cobalt wrote:

You mean we get the same obnoxious answers like your mitzvos are worthless as well as your excuses.
I had forgotten what a bad feeling I had towards dati leumi after the last discussion.
Thanks (not) for reviving the distaste.
Save your protests, enough already.
I'm making Hashem happy living in America. Take it up with Him.

You do realize that not all of the israeli women here are only dati leumi, right?

shabbatiscoming

Mon, Jun 24 2024, 4:10 am

amother Babypink wrote:

Tysm for giving me more info I must have missed it when you posted earlier. My main question now is, suppose your neighborhood had NOT been having a “mass exodus”, if you had not felt pressured to move due to crime etc, if your neighborhood was thriving and your friends were not moving? do you think there’s a good chance you ever would have made Aliyah? Or chances are you would you have happily stayed where you were?

In your case your impetus for making Aliyah may not have come from anything “atypical”, which for sure can be the case. But my point is that even in your case there was some sort of impetus (the need to move somewhere else) that was was NOT just your desire to move to Israel. Yes you chose israe because of your love and value for it but the original impetus was something else.

Most people do NOT move their family unless something non their life is missing, they don’t feel happy or settled. It’s human nature, when someone feels nothing is missing from their life, why would they go looking for something else?

But for those making aliyah they do have something missing. They want to build their lives IN eretz yisrael. THATS whats missing. Nothing else.
And so often that feeling of misding eretz yisrael is so strong that it does outweigh everything else. And that does not mean there isything not normal or atypical.