Separation of Men and Women.....

amother ↓

Sun, Jan 29 2006, 1:10 am

I know it's an important part of Jewish life and I know this is a great advantage . I know It helps keep marriages stable and keeps us from committing sins.
But sometimes I just can't help feeling like I'm missing out on something.

Please don't tell me that I'm bad for thinking like this. I really need some encouraging answers.

↑ DefyGravity ↓

Sun, Jan 29 2006, 12:36 pm

I think that separating men and women at weddings, kiddushes, shul luncheons and anything similar is unwarranted, and personally don't attend many shul events b/c of the separate seating. I will attend a friend's wedding that's separate seating, but my husband will not accompany me (unless he also has friends that are going to the wedding).

I think that to a certain degree, people go overboard with the separation. If my shul would have mixed seating at their events, I would attend them and therefore would meet more people. But because I can't sit with my husband and both of us are a little shy, we aren't going to attend an event where we have to sit with people we don't know. If we could sit together with couples, then we'd be able to meet more couples that attend our shul. Or maybe we just need to attend one of the more MO shuls in our neigborhood!

There's definitely no reason to be friends with men (especially when you're married), and believe me, you're not missing out on anything. There's no reason why you can't be friendly with any male co-workers, but it's best to leave that relationship at the work-place.

There's no reason why you can't socialize with other couples. I find that it's a nice way to meet people and eventually become more friendly with the wives. Especially if your husband has many married friends, and you recently move to a new neigborhood, it's good to socialize together as couples, and then once you become more comfortable, you can have more of a one on one relationship with the wife.

Mandy

Sun, Jan 29 2006, 12:43 pm

Hi Defy, get ready for the onslaught ! But before it happens, let me give you some support. I hate going to separate seating events also. I do not have oodles of money for a babysitter and if I go out with my husband, guess what ? I want to be able to talk to him and sit next to him and not be stuck talking to people that I am not friendly with just because they are of the same gender as I am.

Also, recently a friend of mine had a birthday party. She invited several couples, they all played a board game and had some snacks and went home. Nothing evil happened. It was just a nice time and that's all. Now maybe she's unusual, but somehow I don't think so.

Crayon210 ↓

Sun, Jan 29 2006, 4:31 pm

1. Mixed seating=halachic issue

2. Mixed-couple events really depend on the couple to a large extent. Some people feel very jealous, and will feel uncomfortable if their spouses are enjoying casual time with others of the opposite gender (even if they are there too!), which is totally normal. This is especially the case during the first year of marriage: Does my husband like her soup better than mine? Did he say an extra thank you for having us that he hasn't said to other hostesses? Etc. etc. Afterwards, it may or may not change.

technic ↓

Sun, Jan 29 2006, 4:52 pm

whats wrong w sitting at a round table mm ww mm ww mm ww etc, so that everyone is either next 2 a) their spouse and b) someone of the same relations????

(aaarrrrgh ive now had 2 edit this bcos of course I didnt type "of the same relations", I typed "of the same relations"!!! Rolling Eyes

)

Last edited by technic on Sun, Jan 29 2006, 6:56 pm; edited 1 time in total

shabbatiscoming ↓

Sun, Jan 29 2006, 5:02 pm

amother, I agree with you. why does there have to be so much separation? I grew up with mixed gatherings, from weddings to shul kiddshes and I think that it can be a possitive thing. for example, if there would be more mixed wedding seating at weddings, dont you think that singles would have a chance to meet other likewise singles? I know that at my wedding, it was all mixed. my chatan and I put three tables for all of our friends, married and not and we let them find seats wherever they wanted to. I believe that when guys and gals meet in a non confruntational environment, it can be a very good thing?
and as for married mixed events, I really dont understand (I say that in senserity) what is the purpose? everyone is already married and with a spouse, so you can stay with your spouse but mingle among friends, but together.

↑ Crayon210 ↓

Sun, Jan 29 2006, 5:13 pm

ytwh1 wrote:

amother, I agree with you. why does there have to be so much separation?

Because halacha says so.

ytwh1 wrote:

for example, if there would be more mixed wedding seating at weddings, dont you think that singles would have a chance to meet other likewise singles? I know that at my wedding, it was all mixed. my chatan and I put three tables for all of our friends, married and not and we let them find seats wherever they wanted to. I believe that when guys and gals meet in a non confruntational environment, it can be a very good thing?

I would have been COMPLETELY mortified to be put in this positon as a single person. Did I come to the wedding to be there for my friend's simcha or to be the victim of poorly executed "shadchanus"?

I can't speak for singles, but I find that separate seating is much more egalitarian and much more comfortable, and I imagine that for many singles, the same is true: who wants to sit at "The Singles Table" with strangers and not their married friends? But then, who wants to sit with married couples and be the only single person there? I imagine it's much more comfortable and less embarrassing with separate seating.

BinahYeteirah ↓

Sun, Jan 29 2006, 5:17 pm

This post is not meant as a judgment of those who feel mixed events are fine; these are just my personal feelings.

I just feel uncomfortable mixing with men. Married or single, old or young, sometimes I even feel uncomfortable around male relatives (depends who they are). Even when there is seperate seating and the men and women have to go to the same tables for food or to wash, I just feel wrong standing close to a man. I enjoy sitting with my husband, too, but sometimes even "family" seating bothers me. Families come in all different sizes, and inevitably, men and women who aren't related end up sitting together.

I don't evne like talking on the phone with a man, if I can get around it. Like the other day, I called my friend to ask for a ride to a meeting that we were going to attend. Her husband was also going. She was busy when I called, so I had to ask her husband. I just felt SO wierd saying, "So could you pick me up at 8?" Maybe I'm too sensitive, but I'm rather glad I feel this way.

sarahd ↓

Sun, Jan 29 2006, 5:19 pm

Crayon, what is the halacha that mandates separate seating? Yes, there has to be a separation at weddings since dancing will take place and men may not watch women dancing. But at a school dinner where no one is dancing? Please bring citation and source for the halacha that mandates separation of gender at events at which no dancing will take place.

I can also see the necessity at an event like a kiddush where due to crowding men and women may come to touch each other. But again, I have never heard of a blanket prohibition on mixed seating.

↑ BinahYeteirah

Sun, Jan 29 2006, 5:45 pm

sarahd wrote:

I can also see the necessity at an event like a kiddush where due to crowding men and women may come to touch each other.

I have never been to a mixed or "family" event where this wasn't a problem. Inevitably there are those present who are not sensitive to the issue or who are not paying attention and inadvertently touching occurs.

red sea

Sun, Jan 29 2006, 5:51 pm

I see the need for separate seating when it comes to dancing and crowded places. On the opposite side, in families, I honestly don't get it. But theres lots of in between too - if it is a simcha lunch thing in shul, you know I would not feel comfortable with my husband sitting at the same table as a flirtatious calling lots of attention to herself dressed (married or not) woman, but if it was my husbands friends and all their wives I would be completely okay with it. There is probably a lot of halachic gray areas where some choose to go be stringent and others lenient. But I do feel it a complete waste of time and money to attend separate seating official function dinners - come on , sit with strangers and listen to repetitive speeches - how much more boring can it get?

↑ technic ↓

Sun, Jan 29 2006, 6:35 pm

sarahd wrote:

Crayon, what is the halacha that mandates separate seating? Yes, there has to be a separation at weddings since dancing will take place and men may not watch women dancing."

but couldnt they DANCE separately (behind mechitza) yet still SIT 2gether...????

↑ Blossom ↓

Sun, Jan 29 2006, 6:51 pm

In chassidishe circles from Satmar to Lubavitch this is very stringently adhered to. In the Litvish world as well. The orthodox or MO varies. But I would love to know more about this concept (sources, etc.)
Amother trust me, it's not all what it seems. It may seem you're missing out but in the long run I don't think so.

↑ amother ↓

Sun, Jan 29 2006, 8:46 pm

In order for men and woman to stay loyal to thier spouses To Torah and halachs makes it easier foor us and put up fences to help us keep this rules. I think bening seperate is a very good thing! look waht does on in the secular world!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

BH we have there rules. I think its beautiful.