Selective mutism vs. Social anxiety or shyness

amother

OP ↓

Yesterday at 11:51 am

DS3 refuses to talk in school because (in his words) he’s too shy.

My question is, what is the line between selective mutism and plain old shyness? At what point is it time to intervene?

I’m shy too. One on one, in a family group and often in small groups I talk easily. In larger groups I usually don’t talk at all. If I do want to say something I think about it a million times and more often than not by the time I decide it no longer is relevant, so I stay quiet.
In school I always prayed my teacher shouldn’t pick on me to read out loud, and if I’d raise my hand (very rarely, even though I was an A+ student and usually had the answer) I’d be sweating and having chills, ie anxiety. I still have extreme difficulty doing anything that is a new type of situation in which talking is required, I postpone and avoid as much as possible. Phone calls to unfamiliar people or institutions are also very hard. Can SM affect adults too? How would it manifest?

Sorry for rambling I’m just confused as to what is shyness? What is social anxiety? How does that differ from SM? Does it even matter maybe it should be addressed regardless? And my main question, when is intervention needed?

amother

Azalea ↓

Yesterday at 12:08 pm

amother OP wrote:

I know I'm answering backward, because your last question is most important: intervention is called for when the symptoms interfere with functioning.

Now for some information.
Social anxiety is anxiety related to social situations, often with fears/thoughts like, "what if people think I'm dumb/ugly/weird" or "what if people judge me."

Selective mutism is often an "add-on" to social anxiety (so people who have it, likely also have social anxiety, but not necessarily the reverse). It's specifically about talking. So, for example, if you had an option to give an answer in class by writing it on a whiteboard instead of speaking, would you be ok with that? If yes, that's selective mutism getting in the way. If no, it's social anxiety. Diagnostically, there are criteria like it has to last X months, and so on. It's most common in little kids, but adults can have it too. The question, like I said above, is does it interfere with functioning. Do you feel you CAN'T speak when you need to. So, for a 3 year old: if he rarely speaks in school, or prefers not to speak to new people until he knows them for a few months, that could be normal shyness. If he needs the bathroom in school (not sure this is relevant at his age) would he say something, or he cannot do it, and would have an accident? If someone were to give him a ride and bring him to the wrong address, would he be able to say something? If he can't use his words to get his needs met, that's more than shyness. For an adult, functioning looks different: If you have a toothache, do you ignore it simply because you don't want to speak to the dentist? If you're charged $50 instead of $5 for your coffee, would you say something? It's okay to choose not to speak, it's a problem if you feel you cannot.
And again, like for kids, specifically avoiding speaking (in specific situations, or to specific people: there are usually mental "rules" about when it's "ok" to speak) that's SM. If it's to avoid interactions at all, that's social anxiety.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Yesterday at 1:12 pm

amother Azalea wrote:

This is very helpful.

For my son - he had a few #2 accidents because he wouldn’t tell his rebbe, so I guess that qualifies?

As for myself- I’ll describe it as having no emotional filter in certain situations, I just talk freely. In other situations there is this sort of filter in my head - should I say it? Should I not? Is it really necessary? Is that a “normal” comment? - accompanied by intense anxiety, sometimes worse than other times. It’s hard to say for sure but I probably would not have a problem writing my answer on the board. Though come to think of it I was pretty good at playing “conductor”, maybe because there is no time to think? (I was nervous as the girl who was standing got closer and closer, but I was able to answer the question) Interesting that you’re mentioning the dentist. Haven’t been in years, despite having had my teeth bother me a few times, but not badly enough. Charged $50 for a coffee I would speak up, but that’s one on one and pretty straightforward, just one sentence, not a “situation”.
What does not being able to speak really mean? I can speak, I just have intense anxiety about it and therefore don’t when it’s not a must.
For a simple example - the first time I called my ob’s (or fill in with whatever other place) office to schedule an appt I was really nervous. I rehearsed mentally what I was going to say. I drank some water. Dialed the number. Rehearsed once more, Drank some more, another deep breath to brace myself and pressed send. I regulated my breathn while mentally repeating “keep calm, it’s ok” to keep calm until the call is answered.
Subsequent phone calls were nothing. I had to make another appt, had a question or whatever, I just called.
Until I had to call for a very new thing, something that is completely unfamiliar to me (in this case an annual visit) I had anxiety again, though less intense.

As you can imagine I will always text or email over a phone call in these situations.

amother

↑ Azalea ↓

Yesterday at 1:48 pm

amother OP wrote:

So for your child, that's more than typical "he'll outgrow it" shyness. Something it's worth getting help for.

As for you, I'd say there's a selective mutism flavor, but you could also just call the whole thing social anxiety. In terms of whether it's called "able to speak" or whether you should do something about it... as with everything (outside of safety concerns) it's up to you. You could definitely seek help for it. Social anxiety responds very well to therapy, if you're motivated. But you'll only be motivated if you personally want to get rid of it. I see it as a choice between a) continue with business as usual-get anxious every time one of these situations arise, do it anyway when necessary, and repeat. b) get help, probably actively approach all of these feared situations, be extra anxious temporarily, and then feel a lot more free after. Does that make sense?

ETA: motivation is a factor for kids too. If your son wants to be able to speak to the rebbe and is frustrated that his words are stuck, then there's motivation. But if he's not already motivated, it's still possible to build motivation, plus to help him by modeling yourself.

amother

↑ Azalea ↓

Yesterday at 2:44 pm

amother Gardenia wrote:

Selective mutism is a more extreme form of social anxiety . Meaning not all social anxiety manifests as selective mutism but all selective mutism stems from a social anxiety . It differs than shyness ! Typical shyness would be taking a bit of time to warm up to a new situation and after the brief warm up period the child would be fine . A child that takes more than a month to warm up would prob qualify as social anxiety . CBT therapy with a great anxiety therapist turned my SM child into a different child !! It didn’t magically disappear ! He still has social anxiety but along with the tools to navigate it and push himself past it

Diagnostically (at least in the USA), selective mutism is not a form of social anxiety and it can be present on its own. Conceptually and practically, they are closely related, as most people with SM have social anxiety as well.
As you said, both of these are different from shyness. Also accurate that it's not selective mutism if the child isn't talking in the first month at a new environment.

amother

Periwinkle

Yesterday at 2:59 pm

amother DarkYellow wrote:

Personally I believe it's all rooted in anxiety

I thought so too for a long time ( im avteacher), until one of my dear children had sm for 6 years.

No anxiety, an intelligent child who showed his talents,wasnt shy to perform piano infront of small audiences, etc but wozld not speak 1 wird in Company. He never spoke in school but played/ crafted with others together just without words. He never cried , looked scared, or didnt want to join clubs/ school activities, said he enjoyed it a lot spoke about his positive experiences he made at home...

I had him evaluated: no anxiety. He spoke fluently in 2 languages. After speach therapy and a very understanding supporting rebbe at his cheder it started improving at age 7.

No psychological treatment or therapy was needed in his case, I know other cases are different.

He simply wasnt shy, he had no problems wirh vokabulary he us still a quiet guy but says divrey toire, shares ideas, gives speaches/ argues...like any 13 year old. WHAT was his cause of sm, we dont know. It wasnt just a phase or a parenting issue. We really dont know.