What to do when your kids tell you no

amother

OP ↓

Yesterday at 11:10 pm

Our oldest child is a preschooler* and we have a couple younger as well. Lately when we give them directions or commands ("I'd like you to get in PJs now", "Please pick up your coat", "Stop jumping on the couch", "I need you to leave my room so I can get dressed") my oldest has taken to straight-up ignoring us, or telling us no, or responding with chutzpah ("YOU pick it up" or sticking out their tongue, or blowing a raspberry), and the next has started to copy. This is new terrain for us, so I'm looking for advice on how to respond in the moment, and how to work with my kids so that this type of behavior doesn't continue. I'd really like some concrete steps if possible.
Thank you all!

(*Edited to add, by preschooler I mean younger than 1st grade, but they're not a toddler anymore.)

amother

Honey ↓

Yesterday at 11:36 pm

amother OP wrote:

Our oldest child is a preschooler and we have a couple younger as well. Lately when we give them directions or commands ("I'd like you to get in PJs now", "Please pick up your coat", "Stop jumping on the couch", "I need you to leave my room so I can get dressed") my oldest has taken to straight-up ignoring us, or telling us no, or responding with chutzpah ("YOU pick it up" or sticking out their tongue, or blowing a raspberry), and the next has started to copy. This is new terrain for us, so I'm looking for advice on how to respond in the moment, and how to work with my kids so that this type of behavior doesn't continue. I'd really like some concrete steps if possible.
Thank you all!

I never potch but am far from a "therapeutic parent" (sometimes the term "gentle parent" seems to mean "I don't potch"; other times it means (my spin) "the parent is hyperfocused on the child's feelings")

For "pick up your coat", unless the coat is going to get wet and muddy, etc, I'd leave it there, and then before the kid asked ME for something (dinner, snack, etc) I would remind him to pick up his coat first. This enforces the idea that I am not his servant, everyone in the family has a part that they do.

For jumping on the couch or needing them to leave the room, I love to give them thice choice "Are you going to leave by yourself, or am I going to remove you?" But here's the thing: unlike our parents' generation, if I remove, there is no punishment, I just physically remove the child, ttryimg to keep my face like a bouncer in a bar, not arguing, scolding, certainly not smiling or laughing. The kid might act like it's a game the first few times, but kids even toddlers desire physical autonomy, so in general they will prefer to remove themselves.

The 1st one is hardest for me because my house is what some amothers will vall dysfunctional, in that I let ny kids go to sleep in their clothes. Also I have a 5 YO now, so older than your toddler, and I still dress him, but what I do for that, if he isn't coming to me, I will go physically bring him. Now if he "fights me", that is unacceptable, I will stop dressing him, leaving him half naked if necessary, and tell him "you will need to dress yourself" then go away and cool down. Now he's never dressed himself, but after 10 minutes or so, I'll say "do you need help?"

amother

NeonPurple ↓

Today at 1:11 am

amother OP wrote:

following. Four year old started ignoring or saying no. I'm getting so annoyed and angry and it's hard to remember not to yell.

amother

Lightgreen

Today at 1:14 am

I reapond calmly that if they don't do xyz there will be a consequence. I try to keep the consequences to natural consequences where possible, the goal isn't to punish or scare the child, but to show that if they don't do what they are supposed to then the outcome affects them as well. It also allows them to make a choice and see how it plays out. The most important thing is that if they choose not to listen then I always follow through with the consequences. My consistent follow through ensures they take the potential consequences as a real possibility.

amother

↑ NeonPurple

Today at 1:23 am

amother Lightgreen wrote:

feel so negative threatening. And what's age appropriate consequence?

amother

↑ OP ↓

Today at 1:25 am

amother Lightgreen wrote:

I disagree that this is inherently negative or threatening- I do want my children to understand that they live in a world where there are consequences for their words and actions - the Torah itself promises consequences for our choices.
I'm just curious to hear more about what kinds of consequences end up happening, as I'm struggling to come up with the right ones.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Today at 1:30 am

amother Honey wrote:

I appreciate your thoughtful response! I'm thinking about it- I am not sure if addresses the question of "ok but what if they still ignore or say no?" Like, I can remove them from the couch or my room but they immediately race back in and I'm very stubborn and will remove them as often as needed but it easily just turns into them doing it over and over as much as they want, like remove child one, child two is already in middle of going back, remove child two and child one is heading there. So I'm wondering how to teach them that my word holds authority and if I tell them "no jumping on the couch" or "don't smack your sibling" they actually need to listen and not do it?
I feel like I'm constantly playing catch up because even if I warn them first ("Don't smack your sibling, if you smack your sibling XYZ will happen") they immediately just do it anyway and now I have to impose that consequence. How do I get them to learn to listen so that we don't have to go to the consequence every single time? And believe me, they don't enjoy the consequence! But it doesn't seem to help them not do the action, they just do it anyway and then cry through the consequence and then just do the next bad choice 20 min later too.

amother

Begonia

Today at 1:39 am

My kids are much older now. I had a very small family (not by choice) and the privilege of being a SAHM. I was probably less stressed than most and therefore my advice might not be realistic.
I often scooped my kid up, but with kisses and threats of tickling (I’m sure someone will say that is abusive).
I explained natural consequences (if you don’t leave the room, so Mommy can get dressed, we won’t have time to go to the store and get the french fries for dinner, get a present for chaim and you don’t want him to not get a present from you for his birthday, get daddy’s dry cleaning and he will be sad… If you jump on the couch, the couch will break and then Bubbie won’t be able to sit on it and read you stories when she visits us.)

Kids understand more than you think. Often it is our attention they want. Sometimes it is about control (Quick, surprise, daddy and put on your pajamas. Do you want the red ones or the blue ones?) Often a distraction or change in tone will work.

amother

↑ OP

Today at 2:53 am

amother Thistle wrote:

For things like leave my room I take them by the hand put them outside my room and lock my door. For things like pick up their coat when they ask for something I’ll say I can’t give it to you your coat is still on the floor. Sometimes I’ll just firmly say you better get to that fast. Or you have 2 minutes and if it’s not done I will start sign consequences.

So are you basically saying "don't give them the option to say no or ignore, by simply not asking/telling them to do things"? I don't know how realistic that is, and eventually they're old enough that you need to tell them or ask them to do things, and what then? What, at that age, will magically have taught them they need to listen and do what you tell them even if they don't want to?

As far as your last point - we end up there a lot right now and I'm not sure what the right type of consequence is, I feel like all consequences are getting overused right now and I don't like that.

amother

↑ Honey ↓

Today at 3:51 am

amother OP wrote:

Disclaimer: my kids are pretty well-behaved by nature. I know because they got it from me, lol! Like if I'm at a museum and they say "closing time, everyone leave now" and my friend is like "hey, let's sneak by to see this last exhibit!" I feel waaay out of my comfort zone!

* If I remove a kid from jumping on a couch a few times and he kept doing it, I'd probably say "Mama is tired of removing you, if you do it again, you will have to stay in your room for a minute. If the kid barges out of his room, I would hold him in and count the minute.

*** I am a huge fan of giving very small punishments. Big/medium punishments feel unfair and make the kid resentful, and also the parents feel guilty and put off doing them. Super small punishments (go to your room and count to 10, then you can come out) IME the kid doesn't get upset about them but it helps them behave. I also like punishments where they get control over the extent ("Go to your room and come out when you are able to behave". They have to go in their room, but even if they immediately come out, I am dlkz that they will behave. If not, exact same treatment).

*This is going to be super controversial, but I let my kids hit each other. If they are yelling and hitting and crying in front of me and it is stressing me out, I will put them in a room together and tell them "don't come out until you're done fighting". This won't work with all kids, but it does with mine. I think a little bit of physical fighting between kids is normal and healthy.

amother

↑ Honey

Today at 4:10 am

Btw, the reasoning behind allowing siblings to hit, is that if you punish them for hitting each other, it creates an irresistable "game" of trying to get the other sibling in trouble by having him/her hit you. Then the unfair dynamic of big sister hit the little one outside of mom's view, then ran in front of mom, and little sister hit big sister back in front of mom, and then also got a punishment for it!

If this makes sense to you, read Izzy Kalman's writings on bullying and especially on siblings (much is available for free online).