$300k IS NOT ENOUGH!!

amother

↑ DarkOrange ↓

Thu, Dec 19 2024, 9:58 am

amother Cornsilk wrote:

Where do you have this? As a rule, low tuition and/or housing goes along with low salaries. And vice versa.

Yes, but my point is that you can settle somewhere where at least housing OR tuition is cheap, like lkwd. Salaries are decent here, too.

I just don't understand choosing to live somewhere that has high housing costs and high tuition rates. Besides, just because salaries CAN be higher somewhere, doesn't mean they always will be.

↑ small bean

Thu, Dec 19 2024, 10:02 am

OP (might be fictional) bought a house she can't afford.

In the world your mortgage needs to be max 25% - 28% of your income because it doesn't count tuition as an expense. In the frum world, your tuition can easily be 30% of your income, so your mortgage has to have a much lower ratio.

Her mortgage plus her tuition is 50% of her income. She doesn't own her cars, of course she has no money. She made financial decisions that weren't smart. She needs a financial counselor to help her see bigger picture.

amother

Indigo

Thu, Dec 19 2024, 12:34 pm

Threads like this always generate a lot of replies because money is a topic everyone gets worked up about. And it's really SO ridiculous. OP really sounds like she just needs to vent and I totally get it. It's very very hard to be middle class.
I make less than OP but I also don't need to pay as much for healthcare and taxes and I bought my (too small) house when it was more affordable. I live very simply and I struggle. I know of people who are making even less than me who get food stamps, HUD, big tution breaks, etc. They are not raking it in either, but honestly they might be doing better than I am.

Bottom line is that earning more often DOES NOT equal more money your pocket. It's a sad but true fact.

To say that everyone should move OOT also doesn't really make sense even if not for the job aspect - there are many many reasons someone needs to live where they do and to pontificate and blame is really narrow-minded.

SO what do I recommend:
1) Learn Living Emunah.
2) Daven that Trump should pass some kind of federal-level vouchers that will help with tuition.
3) Daven in general that you shouldn't have unexpected expenses.

Sorry to sound preachy but at the end of the day if you don't have faith, you will lose your mind.

amother

↑ Pewter

Thu, Dec 19 2024, 1:07 pm

amother Cornsilk wrote:

Usually not those earning $300k.

So OP can either live in the tri-state area on this salary and be juuuust making it, or she can do the same in Cleveland on a lower salary. Either way she's not coming out ahead.

It's not impossible to make more than 300k out of town, certainly if you're talking about combined salaries. It really depends on the field you're in. It's really silly to assume that incomes are capped out of town.

Bnei Berak 10

Thu, Dec 19 2024, 1:21 pm

amother Lightpink wrote:

$60k mortgage & property tax
$60k tuition
$24k groceries.
$12k utilities
$24k medical & dental COULD U DO REFUAH PLANS INSTEAD?
$6k cars (insurance, gas etc)
$6k home & life insurance
$22k maaser NOT OBLIGATORY. GIVE TZEDAKA INSTEAD
$12k camp ($2k/kid) LUXURY

TOTAL: $226k

Income is now completely depleted.
And many of the above estimates are actually underestimated.

Here are just SOME of the things that are NOT included in the above list of expenses:

CLOTHING. SECOND HAND

TOILETRIES. ISNT THIS PART OF GROCERY EXPENSES? Bar soap by the way lasts must longer than liquid. I use makeup sparingly.

NECESSARY HOME REPAIRS. Can you find cheap handyman? I find older ones charge less.

Haircuts. My Dh does this for boys. I do girls.

Chol hamoed trips. Go to free places like parks. Make it exciting by introducing challenges contests games.

Landscaping. Luxury.

Cleaning help. Luxury except when medically you’re unable. Involve children more. It’s good for them to a large extent when you keep it chilled out. 15-30 min a day only! Not a big deal! Play music.

Seminary. Bar mitzvahs. Weddings. Not there yet…

Vacations. LUXURY

Birthday presents.LUXURY

Shalach manos. DO HOMEMADE. KEEP IT TO THE MITZVA. SMILE AND SAY THANK YOU TO PEOPLE WHO GIVE YOU AND GIVE THEM CARD THAT YOU GIVE TZEDOKAH IN THEIR ZECHUS.

Chanuka tips. I HEAR YOU! It’s hard!

Lulav and esrog. Can you cut from food budget. For instance 2 weeks no snacks? If you buy immediately before chag it is super cheap.

Sheitels. GEMACH/exchange.

School supplies. GEMACH

Extracurriculars. LUXURY. THERES A LOT YOU CAN TEACH YOUR KIDS YOURSELF.

Mikvah. FEEL THE PINCH TOO.

Diapers. WE USE GOVT FREE ONES FROM PANTRY SINCE WE DONT QUALIFY FIANCIALLY FOR OTHER GOVT AID.

LITERALLY EVERYTHING ELSE.

[/quote]
Birthday presents (for kids) is a luxury in your world? Speechless

I always thought I was beyond frugal but I wouldn't call b-day presents a luxury...
Maybe having more than one boy and one girl is considered a luxury too in your opinion and we should sell off your luxury kids.

amother

NeonBlue

Thu, Dec 19 2024, 1:43 pm

From speaking to friends OOT there are so many expenses I don’t have that they do.
Also, important to compare with people who have kids same ages as yours.
For example, if you have kids below age 10 or so, so much of this won’t apply to you.
Extra expenses friends OOT have:
Tuition is sometimes higher
Overnight camp- often requires a flight
Flights/ travel to visit family
Groceries are way more than I spend (think multiple thousands)
When children are dating, travel ends up being much more
Simchos are more (weddings…)
Even making a small simcha is pricey, bc hosting those who come in means meals often from thurs- Sun

Once you have a few older children OOT doesn’t give the financial benefit it did for those first few years.

amother

Maize

Thu, Dec 19 2024, 1:50 pm

Bnei Berak 10 wrote:

Birthday presents (for kids) is a luxury in your world? Speechless

I don't give my kids birthday presents. Neither dh nor myself got bday presents from our parents and it never occurred to me.
I usually bake a birthday cake to celebrate.
And I live in town in the tri state area....

amother

Lavender

Thu, Dec 19 2024, 5:16 pm

amother Acacia wrote:

Maaser comes after everything else. You need to figure out all of your basic life necessities, which I’d say includes a number of the things listed at the bottom, and then calculate your maaser off of what remains. If you truly cannot reduce other expenses, your Maaser should probably only be around $2000 a year.

Also 2k a month for medical is crazy high, speaking as someone in a family of heavy medical customers. I’d look into a better insurance plan.

We don’t hold that Maaser comes after everything else.
It’s 10percent off take home pay.

amother

↑ Marigold

Thu, Dec 19 2024, 6:25 pm

It’s so frustrating that people’s automatic response to such type of threads is move oot, move to a smaller house etc. how is that realistic? It’s not so simple to simply start over in a new city with a downgraded house, find decent paying jobs, and having kids that are happy with the change. It’s like saying camp is a luxury. Camp isn’t a luxury for two working parents. Who should watch the kids? And before you respond by pairing up with other families and do a round robin type of situation, that only works when the kids are young. A 7th grader isn’t interested in that. Oh she should be working by that age? Okayyyy. You literally can’t win with people that seem to have all the answers that are beyond unrealistic.

amother

↑ Coral

Yesterday at 5:04 pm

amother OP wrote:

Wow this is exactly what I said in my original post, I wonder if they took it from here lol.

I dont know the people in the video, but just the fact that he said "which means everything is on the books" makes it sound like if you can get away with it, then of course don't declare your income and pay taxes on it but since it is a major company, well you just dont have the choice not to. Like it's very typical not to pay taxes if you can get away with it. Why else bring it up?

What a bad message from and to frum Jews.

Everything starts from housing. If you have or know you want to have many kids, you just can't buy in Monsey or another expensive neighborhood. It's not rocket science.

amother

Bottlebrush ↓

Yesterday at 6:03 pm

amother Cyclamen wrote:

Ok I'm posting my budget so people see it's doable. I live in Lakewood earn around 150k combined pre tax. We have 4 kids. Obviously expenses keep going up

Monthly tuition/playgroup 2450
Mortgage 3500
Cars 1200 (includes gas insurance and 1 van lease) we have a second car that's paid up in full
Utilities 350
Food 1000
Target (diapers, toilet paper... ) 200
Miscellaneous 400- clothes, haircuts..
Masser 1100

Total expense 10,200
Obviously that's cutting it very close. But this is why when I see 300k I can't beleive it. I guess I have a decent mortgage and not 6 kids yet. Hoping to raise income.

Your utilities are very low. Here in New England I'll be lucky if just our heating bill is 350/month and not more.

amother

↑ Bottlebrush ↓

Yesterday at 6:08 pm

amother OP wrote:

Actually that is exactly the point. The point is that I gave you a very basic breakdown of very normal expenses for a frum family and showed you clearly how $300k doesn’t cover them. I assume you have assistance for healthcare, tuition, possibly food?

I have a 2,800 square foot house built in the 60s. I walk a mile to shul. 1 other frum Jew on my block. Sure if I had to I would sell and rent a 2 bedroom apartment for $2k. BH I don’t have to. But my point is that no part of my life is extravagant or luxurious. My point is that it’s insane how much money it costs to live what most would consider a regular middle class lifestyle. My point was NOT to get pity from anyone or to say I’m poor. My point was NOT to say that I am struggling more than you. My point was NOT to say that I am living the most threadbare existence possible. Not at all.

I hope you see a yeshua soon.

You can't consider how you live to be typical for the American middle class. For one thing, most middle-class Americans don't donate over 20 grand in charity.

amother

↑ Bottlebrush ↓

Yesterday at 6:21 pm

Trademark wrote:

That's not relevant to what I'm saying.

It seems like flaunting, and in bad taste when so many people are struggling to post how look at how much I earn and how comfortable I are, but in theory it would not be enough. And look our income will jump by another 70k soon, for many people 70k is their entire income or close to it.

Most posters are not living in theory but in reality, as evidenced by many many threads, so that's why I think it's in bad taste.

And they also have 700K invested and draw 36K from it.

amother

↑ Dustypink

Yesterday at 6:48 pm

small bean wrote:

All true, but by this same logic, one should also not have kids based on tuition expense calculations.