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Forum -> Chinuch, Education & Schooling

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creditcards ↓

Mon, Dec 16 2024, 12:35 am

amother Jasmine wrote:

You can get government funding through honest ways as well.
I honestly don't care how they get their funding. The issue is lying about a kid having issues just to get funding because that affects the kid.
And before you say it doesn't let me tell you my school made a ton of money off of me by giving me false diagnoses and till today I can't shake them off my name.
Not to mention the lack of self confidence to stick up for myself in certain situations.

How does the diagnosis affect you?

amother

↑ Tulip ↓

Mon, Dec 16 2024, 12:36 am

#BestBubby wrote:

No way public school, a house of immorality!

I would homeschool.

How does this work practically? Is it the mother or the father who is homeschooling? If it's the mother, does she teach her sons gemara?

↑ #BestBubby ↓

Mon, Dec 16 2024, 12:44 am

Yeah, boys would need yeshivah.

But it could work for girls.

Even for boys, better to be home than go to public school.
They won't learn Torah in PS, they will learn Toeivah.

amother

↑ Zinnia

Mon, Dec 16 2024, 12:50 am

Anyway it seems, that it is mostly girls schools, that threaten this route. I have heard that some donors rather give to Boys Schools, because the Torah they learn is more of a zechus. Sorry to say but that is the truth. And hence why Kollels are given priority by some donors.

amother

↑ Natural ↓

Mon, Dec 16 2024, 12:51 am

kosherkween wrote:

You're all crying poverty but only one person mentored taking they kids out and homeschooling. So you can bash the school all u want but bottom line ure utilizing goods that ure not paying for, which needs to come from someone else's bank account

I homeschooled for a year and it was a disaster. A head of a mosad (a very large respected mosad, with a lot of white hair and a heart condition to show for it) when he heard I was homeschooling because we could not afford tuition, despite his tzaros with paying for his own school, called up the school my children go to and told them to accept us with lower or no tuition. (We pay what we can but it is very far from actual tuition price.)

Bottom line is that the schools don't exist as a money-making or even a break-even corporation. Their primary reason for existence is to give Jewish children a proper education so they grow up as literate, happy, healthy, contributing Jews and continue our mesora for future generations.

If we are throwing children out of school because their parents aren't paying, whether their parents are tightwads who will be paying for it in Shomayim, or they are struggling to put food on the table, or have terrible mazal and can't hold a job, we are playing with innocent Yiddishe neshamos.

You know the bitachon you teach in school? It applies to you too. No parent can take money out of your pocket that is yours. Nobody can give you agmas nefesh that was not predestined for you.

Maybe have your mosad model the responsible behavior it is asking from parents. Cut costs, open your books and tell the truth about where you're prioritizing spending. Make sure that the priorities are in the right place, not just to make your mosad look good, that's the equivalent of a parent driving a Lexus for the same reason. Make sure that the administration of the school demonstrates simple living and pays full tuition. (If they get a discount, whose pocket will it be coming out of?)

amother

↑ Tulip ↓

Mon, Dec 16 2024, 12:52 am

#BestBubby wrote:

Yeah, boys would need yeshivah.

But it could work for girls.

Even for boys, better to be home than go to public school.
They won't learn Torah in PS, they will learn Toeivah.

So we're going back to the shtetl model. Boys in yeshiva, girls homeschooled at home. Hmmm... how innovative.

amother

↑ Tulip ↓

Mon, Dec 16 2024, 1:04 am

amother Zinnia wrote:

And the irony in this is, girls schools are a money maker. Boys yeshivas are not.

What are the expenses in a girls school? Two teachers making 20k a year each? You have 30 girls in a class, even if the pay reduced tuition, even with other expenses, what is their profit? Something tells me that it's not the teachers salaries that they are having trouble paying... it's something else.

↑ chestnut

Mon, Dec 16 2024, 1:26 am

#BestBubby wrote:

No way public school, a house of immorality!

I would homeschool.

Good for you. Families who need both incomes or single parents can't.
We can't be screaming at every corner how important Jewish education is while scaring the parents with throwing their kids out if tuition isn't up to date.

↑ creditcards

Mon, Dec 16 2024, 1:36 am

kosherkween wrote:

Everyone keeps saying communal responsibility. Well, then let it be communal! Every time the boiler in school breaks down, every parent gets a bill, communal no?

Every time the payroll is short 20k, we send bill to your local tomcha shabbas or rsk!

Ppl say communal but it's just empty words with no meaning.

There's no communal fund, it's all individual ppl (for the most part) in each school who have the detestable job of collecting, being hated just for doing their job, being called every curse word in the book, and still have the nighmare of looming deadline of payroll, from which they cannot escape, or their students will truly be in the streets

There is a way of calling up to ask for tuition. The ones who talk nicely and understanding are not hated.

amother

↑ Honeysuckle ↓

Mon, Dec 16 2024, 2:37 am

amother Skyblue wrote:

Off topic but I've always been curious. How? I'm a sahm, pay full tuition so it's not on anyone else's cheshbon but I often wonder how do other women do it. So many appointments, days off from school, kid home sick... And you said you have high need kids...

I get paid per hour so if I take off for appointments I just lose that pay. Or make up hours at night. Not easy but my boss is very nice. Kid Sick days are my sick days so I go to work unless I am bedridden. Not the best but Sudafed and tylenol are amazing.

amother

↑ Honeysuckle ↓

Mon, Dec 16 2024, 2:44 am

amother Cherry wrote:

None of that explains how you can both work full time with special needs kids. My dd has multiple appointments a month, often an hour's drive each way. They are scheduled months in advance because specialists are booking that far out anyway. They still get canceled and rescheduled at the specialists whims. I need to schedule my life around her appointments and not the other way around. And be prepared to rearrange everything at an hours notice. Maybe some people have SN kids who are low maintenance and it's doable but for my child it's really really not.

Oh we have medical appointments that are scheduled 1 month to 3-4 months out.
We figure it out. Husband takes off, I take off, call the one relative locally who can help, pay someone to babysit... put in overtime other days, work from home...
Luckily it is 1 specialist with crazy appointments for each kid. It's actually figuring out how to get their meds which takes hours each month. Refills, pharmacy issues, insurance issues... that's what my lunch break is for. And when I am commuting.

amother

Pumpkin

Mon, Dec 16 2024, 7:30 am

amother Razzmatazz wrote:

Honestly, such comments are out of touch with the average family. Majority of families today need day camp as their childcare so they can work and pay said tuition for their kids.

It either comes down to paying for day camp and keep their jobs so they can continue to chip away at tuition. Or, one parent stops working and they lose significant income and now can't pay tuition at all.

If day camp is such a necessity, why isn't there pressure from the community for day camps to offer tuition breaks too?

amother

↑ Tanzanite

Mon, Dec 16 2024, 7:39 am

amother Honeysuckle wrote:

It comes down to: mothers can work full time when they work really flexible jobs. If you work a very time based job that has to be done at work, the “just do it” that everyone is saying “works” would very likely get you fired. BH I work only 10-4 so I can make all the appointments 8:30 in the morning and get to work on time, but if I didnt, the 3 appts we have this week between me and my kids would get me fired for being late 3 days. Fortunately my employer was willing to have me work only 30 hours a week (I work 8-2 on Fridays in the winter) as long as I could reliably commit to those hours. And my husband’s job is the flexible can work from home when kids are sick job - but he can’t do appts because he has to be near his computer all day.

amother

Whitewash

Mon, Dec 16 2024, 10:21 am

I haven't read all the comments so please forgive me if the points I make have already been discussed. The fact is that the vast majority of schools have hundreds of thousands of dollars in deficit's annually. The starting teachers salary has gone up astronomically within the last few years due to the lack of teachers and the general rise in employers paying higher salaries across the board.
It now costs a school at minimum about $75k just for the two main teachers, not to mention rent/mortgage costs, secretary('s), assistant's, principal's, supplies, among other administrative costs. With many parents either paying far less than full tuition and in some cases not at all, it leaves them with a massive deficit which they have cover by making campaigns and shnoring. Are there some schools that are in a good financial situation? Absolutely, but they are much more the exception rather than the rule. School staff work day and night to make sure that our daughters receive the best possible education. We as a community should be doing our part to the best of our abilities to make sure that they have the necessary funds to make it happen. Our most prized possession is our kids and we should do whatever it takes to help give them the resources so that our kids can reach their fullest potential. If that means cutting corners in other areas of life then so be it. I'm not here to give people financial advice, but lets put things in the right perspective.

amother

Brickred

Mon, Dec 16 2024, 10:30 am

I live OOT, so I have no skin in this game, but let me describe our school-

It's housed in a former public school, 20-30 minutes out away from the frum community
The building is clean but old, and there is clearly wear and tear. The kids don't care
There is no swag or backdrops for announcements or professionally recorded songs
There is a uniform gemach that everyone happily contributes to and uses from
Teachers work a full day in different classes- the 4th grade rebbi also teaches the 1st grade girls, etc

There are no vouchers
Tuition is affordable

amother

Oleander ↓

Mon, Dec 16 2024, 10:37 am

I have skimmed the entire thread and no one seems to have pointed out the obvious

There is no monolithic "community" in Lakewood or Monsey.

That is there is no quasi-public school system which operates all of the schools and guarantees admission to every child based on criteria like geographic location.

There is a collection of schools which don't offer admission to everyone nor does everyone want to send to just any school.

Therefore you will never be able to "tax" the "community to pay for the schools because no one is realistically going to want to be taxed to support a school their child can't get into or a school they wouldn't send their child to.

Not to mention who would determine what the standards and curriculum are as you would need a Board of Education to operate it. Who would allocate funds from the "community".

My understanding is that smaller places with a smaller number of frum people actually do have "community schools" which are supported by the community because by necessity everyone in the community sends to one school or at most two schools. They take everyone and receive support from the frum institutions.

B'Syata D'Shmya ↓

Mon, Dec 16 2024, 10:51 am

amother Honeysuckle wrote:

There are so many issues that need to be tackled together. Tackling one won't help.

1. We live too lavish of a lifestyle as a whole. No one needs new clothing each season just because. If your old clothing still fits, wear it! Our kids don't need snack bags, new electric scooters, fancy watches for 8th grade graduation, name brands, $200 and up coats... so many homes have been remodeled or updated... posters on here talk about a 3000 foot home being "tiny". Schools should see if people are buying extras and going on vacations, Pesach programs...
2. Simcha costs have gone way up. You don't need miniatures and lighting and all other fancy items.
3. Schools need to open their books. They should have an honest and equitable pay scale- 1st year teachers get X. Raise every 3 years until a max of Y.
4. Why do we need so many administrators? Why so many extra staff? My kids school has a bunch of people that honestly seem to run 2-3 programs a year. And those aren't full time jobs but get a full time salary. If my business can't make ends meet, I need to justify every salary. And some of these salaries are enough to cover trips. I mean one was in EY recently!!
5. Can schools also cut down? Anyway to cut copying costs down? Fancy lunches for staff? Gifts every YT? If parents are being asked to lower their costs, schools should too. And they should tell parents "we cut costs by X a month by switching Y but we still need your tuition". Show us you are helping meet us halfway!!
6. Schools need to realize that just because we don't qualify for food stamps doesn't mean we can afford everything. We just can't. And I don't go on vacation. Grandparents paid for us to fly last summer to see them. We don't have a house. We don't buy just because.
7. Parents need to both work FULL TIME if they aren't making it. I do. My entire salary goes to tuition plus taxes from that income I earned. Why work? So teachers can get paid.
8. If a parent chooses to not work (kollel or SAHM) the school should assign a base salary to them and use that when calculating discounts. I am tired of working but what is worse is when a mom chooses to not work and expects a discount. A mom recently told me "oh I could never work. How would laundry get done?" Um it does. And it doesn't take 20 hours a week, let alone 40. I do it at night and my baskets are empty. And yes she gets discounts. Why should my salary pay her to stay at home?!?

Finally someone got to the crux of the issue. As a community we dont prioritize our tuition. We mock it, we kvetch about it, we ignore it and we avoid paying it. We find excuses why we dont need to pay it, we blame the school for overcharging, we blame society for increasing standards to an impossible to sustain level, we look for loopholes etc Even as we prioritize other unessentials (see above).
We cant complain about tuition if we are overspending on simchas, vacations, yuntif, clothing, fancy footwear, toys, snack bags, etc etc.
Even our teachers tell us we need to spend more on our kids, who keep upping the bar, their "needs" and keeping up with our neighbors standards.
We feel like fools when our neighbors get to relax being a SAHM and we have to work and do all the same home responsibilities as our SAHM neighbors who get discounts and tuition breaks.

I propose something else. To keep up with our tuition,we borrow from our parents and pay them back a few thou a year, as we can. if this was said already, I apologize, I read most not all of this thread. BTW, this is what we did.

meyerlemon44

Mon, Dec 16 2024, 10:57 am

People seem to think every public school is full of drug dealers and teachers trying to make kids trans. I send to public school OOT because my kids are SN and everyone is lovely. It’s a small town that we chose because the Jews and non Jews are good people, and that’s reflected in the school .

↑ B'Syata D'Shmya

Mon, Dec 16 2024, 11:02 am

I also remember when tuition breaks were dependent on volunteering to help the school in other ways.

↑ small bean

Mon, Dec 16 2024, 11:06 am

B'Syata D'Shmya wrote:

Your parents have to be able to lend to you. My parents can't do that. Nor can my inlaws.

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