School taking drastic measures

↑ kosherkween ↓

Yesterday at 10:56 pm

chestnut wrote:

So, I think we're talking about different groups of parents. You and your husband apparently have experience with families who spend on everything and anything before tuition and treat tuition as optional. But there are many hardworking families living paycheck to paycheck while spending only on necessities, and these are families we're talking about here.
The thing with your examples is that there are gemachs for everything and anything, takana weddings, small bar mitzvah, etc.
Do you suggest ppl who can't afford tuition not make small weddings and just marry their kids off in their backyards? Or the bar mitzvah boy be left without tefillin?

Perhaps ure right about the demographic.

Let me ask u this. How many paycheck to paycheck ppl have a photographer at their wedding? Not oot, Local lakewood Brooklyn monsey weddings? Singer, band

How many kallahs get full jewelry costing 10-25k from parents struggling for month end?

How many boys have singers at their bar mitzvah?

Babies in doonas?

How many average lower middle class ppl spend money they don't have and somehow figure it out because it's important enough to them?

Now tell me how many of them prioritized tuition

amother

↑ Marigold

Yesterday at 11:00 pm

kosherkween wrote:

Of course I understand that food and housing are a must. I'm not an idiot. But what ticks me off is that the tuition bill is viewed as a separate category. If you can pay great, if not, what can I do, my kids need to eat, but you still send the kids to school!!

Tuition is the only service I know about that paying is viewed as totally optional.

Some ppl have such an entitlement attitude towards school staff that they would never have to any other service. Can you not forget that this is a service provided to you (10x more so if school is privately owned, not moisad) and comes at a cost?

Can you not forget that ure cost doesn't just go away because you're ignoring calls from schools number.

Another thing, somehow when the big guns come in (board members) and threaten that tomorrow ure kids are out on the street, or u pay up and in full every month, money is coughed up, someway somehow, a rich uncle, a kind neighbor, a charidy campaign, cc etc..

Actually, I have homeschooled and sent to public school. Better than being violated by a tuition board for a mediocre education at best. This system is broken and it needs to fall. Maybe then, frum schools will actually get it right. Frumkeit is not a business, it shouldn't be transactional. Where is all the money going because we all know it's not going to the teachers

amother

↑ Quince

Yesterday at 11:00 pm

amother Taupe wrote:

Schools have lost my pity. They cry poverty, but then do what they want, with no transparency.
We pay full tuition. When I called to complain that my nursery child is last in the morning and first on the way home (making total hours , including transportation , which I pay for, under 5hours!!!) I was told by the transportation manager, “so don’t work!” Ummm…I don’t work for fun last I checked. If you want parents to be able to pay tuition, at least try to accommodate so they can actually work!
And when my preschool child was enrolled in one of these govt funded classes (3k or something, not income eligibility based) I was so excited to finally get a tuition break for the year- nope! They gave $50 reduction/month. With the claim that it’s offsetting future years tuition (they I bh pay full amount for).
Then building fund- we were promised 5 years per family, which we have paid up. Now this year, surprised, there’s a new building fund. When we asked about what happened to the 5 year limit, the reply was that this is a new, different building fund. Really now???
So yeah, no pity from me.

I’m with you!!! We pay full tuition but have zero say in any aspect of how the school is run including how they work their own finances. The owner of the school lives in a mansion and lives the high life but cries that he can’t meet his payroll. Why would that be?!? Some transparency would be helpful!

amother

↑ Zinnia ↓

Yesterday at 11:02 pm

kosherkween wrote:

My examples are perfect actually. Because the very premise of the idea, that u can't have something u don't pay for, is the reason we have so many gemachs. Its the reason u get what u pay for. Gamachs are there precisely because the shop owners don't owe u anything, even if u can't afford a dress.

Maybe if more ppl would have less entitlement towards schools and realize that theres actual goods and services being sold, their would be alternative options or funding from communal orgs

Nope, If I can't afford to buy a Kallah gown, I won't even bother walking into the store! I will look around for something I can afford or if not Borrow a gown from a friend. And if someone else walked into a store, and didn't bother paying, and walked out with a gown, then they are shoplifting and in most cases go to jail.

So are you suggesting, we call the the police on non-paying parents and throw them into jail??
And you say people should go around asking. do you know how much the community is constantly bombarded by all types of Campaigns and organzations??! And if you have children in different schools, how much do you think you can pester neighbors and friends, till they say enough??

Seriously, one of things a father is suppose to teach his sons is a parnassah, so he can support a family. Unfortunately, the financial importances are not stressed enough before marriages. Parents are expected to support their married children. Especially, pushing boys to marry, without teaching them a parnassah! This lifestyle is not sustainable without higher salaries! The bubble has burst, especially now with higher costs of living. Food, utilties, housing. These are neccessities. We are not talking about over the top bar mitzvahs. But if your husbands parent body is doing them. Maybe make the sign, they cannot have them or grandparents pay for such things. Or how about, you go protest on those parents lawn, who you think are not trying hard enough to pay, into embarassment. Especially those going on vacations or living in mega mansions. Instead give the school every last penny or else. out on the street. and now attending Yeshivas is now a luxury.

amother

↑ Tulip ↓

Yesterday at 11:08 pm

chestnut wrote:

The problem is that the schools lump us all into one category. "You can figure out how to pay if you make it a priority" may be true for the parents who are spending on extras and luxuries, but not true for parents who have five dollars left in the bank at the end of the month (or more likely, negative) after paying for the very basics. Parents like us who really struggle get mad when we're told - you can pay if you would just make it a priority.

The other side of the coin is all the "musts" that we must pay for our kids, and who are the ones telling us this? The school, the teachers, the parenting experts. "You must buy what their friends have, they will feel left out otherwise". "You must pay for a tutor for your child to stay in class". "You must send your daughter to seminary". "You must send your son to camp, its mandatory". This makes us feel that the schools really don't get it.

amother

↑ Mimosa ↓

Yesterday at 11:09 pm

amother Marigold wrote:

Did you get any pushback (family members, neighbors, shul..) for sending to public school?

↑ chestnut ↓

Yesterday at 11:11 pm

kosherkween wrote:

How many? I wouldn't know cause I'm not in those circles.
(Photographers and one singer are either included in the takanah package or those halls refer to certain ones with cheaper prices. Doonas could well be grandparents' gifts).
Again, ppl I know who're struggling don't pay anywhere close to these sums for a kallah jewelry. Chassidim do, but their tuition is cheap.
This again proves we're talking about different categories, which I completely admit, exist.

amother

↑ Tulip ↓

Yesterday at 11:13 pm

kosherkween wrote:

Takana weddings
Simple jewelry
No singer
Doonas are necessary, its literally a car seat. And are usually paid for by the grandparents.

This is literally what most of the Lakewood community looks like. I think this thread started off in the Lakewood forum, and now it's public, I'm not sure why.

But sure, feel free to go after all the parents who do the above. And leave the rest of us alone.

↑ chestnut ↓

Yesterday at 11:13 pm

amother Tulip wrote:

Well said and was perfectly demonstrated in this thread.

amother

↑ Razzmatazz ↓

Yesterday at 11:13 pm

kosherkween wrote:

All of the above come from a chasunah package heavily subsidized by tzedakah. So they come with the package deal, so we have the photographer and jewelry. It wouldn't change the costs if we don't go with the photographer or jewelry, it's a fixed price.

Singers by a BM? That's a rarity in my circles.

Donna's? Either gifted or non-existent.

I think an earlier poster hit the nail on the head. You don't understand the demographics of the larger majority who don't pay. You assume, but have no insight as to how they survive or how they juggle other expenses.

Perhaps that would be a good place to start. Once you're familiar with the struggles of the average family, you may sing a totally different tune.

amother

↑ Tulip ↓

Yesterday at 11:31 pm

kosherkween wrote:

You're all crying poverty but only one person mentored taking they kids out and homeschooling. So you can bash the school all u want but bottom line ure utilizing goods that ure not paying for, which needs to come from someone else's bank account

So basically you're saying that for people who spend on luxuries, they should stop spending on luxuries and pay their tuition bill. (I agree).

And for people who are not spending on luxuries, and are just making it month to month, they should homeschool. Do you really think a large percentage of Jewish kids should just get thrown out of school? Is this what our community has come to?

Thankfully, the administrators of my kids schools are more understanding, they don't suggest I homeschool. I'm going to appreciate them more from now on.

amother

↑ Zinnia ↓

Yesterday at 11:37 pm

kosherkween wrote:

So maybe, tell your husband when he calls up parents or sends a letter, that if they cannot afford to pay tuition, maybe they should not come to school anymore or find a cheaper alternative to educate their children. and Zeh hu.
Or if you cannot get parents to pay, close the school down. But your husband will be out of job, so he will NEVER suggest that. But if it does close, maybe he can try to find a different job. But I know the job market is terrible.
The nerve of an irresponsible community that pops out babies that they cannot afford or you think they won't bother to pay tuition for.

dena613

Today at 12:12 am

kosherkween wrote:

Oy, I see this is a very personal and emotional topic for you.

Have you and your husband ever gone to torah umesorah's president convention? I think that would be really great. It's important to be reminded of why our schools exist.

I do not doubt that shouldering the financial burden of a school is very great. But I also know that we are "going for the gold"- not just the money but the beautiful chinuch of all of our children.

I hope you and your husband wouldn't want yiddishe boys and girls to be in public school because they lacked the funds to pay their tuition.

amother

↑ Pearl

Today at 12:14 am

kosherkween wrote:

For most kids homeschooling is not a healthy option. And public school should never be an option besides if there's special education needs.

↑ #BestBubby ↓

Today at 12:25 am

chestnut wrote:

Obviously normal ppl would choose rent. Then send to local public school en masse. All of a sudden, all principals, school administrators, teachers, rebbis would end up jobless.
How about answering the Q now - what should come first - rent or tuition?
(I might have missed it, but I highly doubt anyone would be advocating not to pay tuition at all).

No way public school, a house of immorality!

I would homeschool.

amother

↑ Razzmatazz

Today at 12:31 am

kosherkween wrote:

What does homeschooling accomplish for the poor family? The parent will have to stop working, and now they can't afford the rent. Are you expecting them to homeschool while living on the streets?