School taking drastic measures

↑ chestnut ↓

Yesterday at 10:14 pm

kosherkween wrote:

Of course I understand that food and housing are a must. I'm not an idiot. But what ticks me off is that the tuition bill is viewed as a separate category. If you can pay great, if not, what can I do, my kids need to eat, but you still send the kids to school!!

Tuition is the only service I know about that paying is viewed as totally optional.

Some ppl have such an entitlement attitude towards school staff that they would never have to any other service. Can you not forget that this is a service provided to you (10x more so if school is privately owned, not moisad) and comes at a cost?

Can you not forget that ure cost doesn't just go away because you're ignoring calls from schools number.

Another thing, somehow when the big guns come in (board members) and threaten that tomorrow ure kids are out on the street, or u pay up and in full every month, money is coughed up, someway somehow, a rich uncle, a kind neighbor, a charidy campaign, cc etc..

Again, if housing and tuition are both a must, which gets paid in full first if there is not enough money for both?
Someone gave an example of $100K tuition for 8 kids. What should a family with the total of $120K gross income do?
Everyone here agrees that an entitlement attitude is wrong, but not just on the parents' part, on the schools' as well!

↑ chestnut ↓

Yesterday at 10:18 pm

kosherkween wrote:

In general, if you really show ure struggling to pay and are committed to paying something, even small amounts, the school works it out. Don't know about other places but this school has never ever thrown out child when parents were serious and forthcoming, even when they cudnt pay a few months.

There's huge difference between a person who shows up, answers the phone, comes to the meetings, tries to commit as much as humanly possible, vs ppl who already walk in with chip in their shoulder that you owe them something, keep ignoring calls, have not paid a cent for months and months for 3,4,5 kids and are badmouthing the school for even attempting to collect.

Honestly, how many of you are in the latter category?

Just as there is a huge difference between schools who understand the parents' struggles and let them pay in installments they can afford without being thrown out of their house and those who want it paid up in full within a few months, embarrassing the kids, not getting them take midterms or return after the break.
These scenarios go both ways.

↑ kosherkween ↓

Yesterday at 10:18 pm

Everyone keeps saying communal responsibility. Well, then let it be communal! Every time the boiler in school breaks down, every parent gets a bill, communal no?

Every time the payroll is short 20k, we send bill to your local tomcha shabbas or rsk!

Ppl say communal but it's just empty words with no meaning.

There's no communal fund, it's all individual ppl (for the most part) in each school who have the detestable job of collecting, being hated just for doing their job, being called every curse word in the book, and still have the nighmare of looming deadline of payroll, from which they cannot escape, or their students will truly be in the streets

↑ kosherkween ↓

Yesterday at 10:19 pm

chestnut wrote:

That's true.

Finally something we agree on

↑ kosherkween ↓

Yesterday at 10:22 pm

chestnut wrote:

It's not entitlement for the school to expect to be paid for good and service they provide. They're not making money off you.
It's real cost that someone will have to step in and pay.

↑ chestnut ↓

Yesterday at 10:22 pm

kosherkween wrote:

Yes, it's not communal now but privately owned. I think if it were communal, there would be a major oversight and open accounting books. So the situation someone posted above about the agreement of a building fund for 5 y and continuing to charge because now "it's a different building fund" would happen then.

↑ kosherkween ↓

Yesterday at 10:24 pm

chestnut wrote:

I agree that's crazy, if all details are true.

amother

↑ Razzmatazz ↓

Yesterday at 10:25 pm

kosherkween wrote:

Communal responsibility means that the leaders of the community set up a system to manage this.

If the community sets up a system where the average family will struggle, they need to equally set up a system to support the average family.

If the schools/community teaches our young adults to deprioritize parnossoh, then they need to develop a plan to make up for the shortfall.

If they set up a system where young adults are encouraged to ignore financial considerations, and then they turn around and hit them with high cost of living fees, what did they expect to happen? I would love to understand this. Please explain.

Teacher_EW

Yesterday at 10:25 pm

This is a big problem, that is only getting more pronounced with the financial state of most people today... In the secular world, private school tuition is a luxury that is only paid for by those making incomes far beyond the majority, yet in the frum world it is as essential as food, even for those living below the poverty line. Honestly, the solution isn't simple, but something radical needs to happen, and I don't think kicking out a large percentage of students will accomplish what they are trying to accomplish...

amother

Myrtle

Yesterday at 10:28 pm

amother Razzmatazz wrote:

But then why promote and teach an unsustainable lifestyle?! The schools (and community) is the victim of its own teachings.

- We marry off the young kids with no financial stability. We tell them to figure it out later.

- We heavily promote the kollel lifestyle, leading to pushing parnossoh down the road.

- We downplay higher education, which would help a good many.

- We encourage the newlyweds to start a family, well before their finances are stable.

- We encourage large families, and telling families not to consider finances for family planning.

- We push our girls to attend costly seminaries and send the boys to costly Israeli yeshivas

- We introduce costly extra-curricular activities into the school environment.

- The average simcha is a bank breaking event.

- We set expectation that chosson/kallah gifts are in the $20-30k range.

- The cost of kosher food and Jewish items have skyrocketed.

- We cram into locations instead of moving out, thereby raising home prices beyond imagination

Etc.....

And then what? Expect the entire community to be wealthy? To earn sufficient funds within this crazy setup? To rely on miracles on a large scale? How on earth does this even begin to make sense.

This setup is largely a product of the educational system. It doesn't work, no matter how nicely they play it. No matter how they attempt to tie it together with spirituality.

Unfortunately, the chickens have come home to roost. Inflation has brought closer the inevitable that was going to happen regardless. You can't create an unsustainable system and expect it to last endlessly. It works for a while as you manipulate funds and people to make it work, but eventually there isn't enough funds and people left to make it work.

So here we are. And the one thing that you should not to is blame the little people for the problems created by those in leadership positions.

THIS! THIS! THIS!

↑ kosherkween ↓

Yesterday at 10:38 pm

chestnut wrote:

Oh this q, of course food, of course housing, I'm not a monster.

But you keep going back to food and rent as if this is the only thing ppl prioritize over tuition.

Also, I don't disagree that community needs to step in. I'm saying it's not schools job to do that.

Let me give u different example.

Do kallahs gown have go be paid? Yes of course. Ok so could she walk out of gown shop without paying? No. But they can't afford groceries! So what, why shud the gown store have to shore up the funds?

Does the wedding hall need to get paid? Can u ignore the managers calls cuz u can't afford it?
Will u honestly not have a photographer at ure childs wedding vecause u can't afford? Or ull somehow find a way? Someone will pay for the cheapest photographer, but that guy is not going home from.the wedding before he's paid in full.

This conversation is not for ppl who are truly starving.

It's for ure average struggling families who for every other event, ure sons bar mitzvah, tefillin there's money

amother

↑ Zinnia ↓

Yesterday at 10:44 pm

kosherkween wrote:

Kallah gowns can be borrowed. Buying them for hundreds of dollars, is not a neccessity. There are cheaper gemachs.
There are cheaper wedding halls, and there are tons of Hachonas Kallah things.
Your examples are zilch.
And Doctors & Dentists won't see you if you don't pay, so people should stop seeing doctors so they don't have to pay deductibles.

↑ chestnut ↓

Yesterday at 10:48 pm

kosherkween wrote:

So, I think we're talking about different groups of parents. You and your husband apparently have experience with families who spend on everything and anything before tuition and treat tuition as optional. But there are many hardworking families living paycheck to paycheck while spending only on necessities, and these are families we're talking about here.
The thing with your examples is that there are gemachs for everything and anything, takana weddings, small bar mitzvah, etc.
Do you suggest ppl who can't afford tuition not make small weddings and just marry their kids off in their backyards? Or the bar mitzvah boy be left without tefillin?

amother

↑ Taupe

Yesterday at 10:49 pm

kosherkween wrote:

I agree that's crazy, if all details are true.

Thanks for doubting me, but yes, 100% true. All of them.
The only thing not true is the assumption of another poster that this is a private school. It isn’t. It’s a chassidish mosad, which imho are worse than the private schools. They’re one huge operation, with one big pocket. So if the mosad wants to build a nicer shul, guess where the money gets taken from. And they don’t feel the need to answer to anybody. You’re not happy, send you kids to a different school.

↑ kosherkween ↓

Yesterday at 10:50 pm

amother Zinnia wrote:

My examples are perfect actually. Because the very premise of the idea, that u can't have something u don't pay for, is the reason we have so many gemachs. Its the reason u get what u pay for. Gamachs are there precisely because the shop owners don't owe u anything, even if u can't afford a dress.

Maybe if more ppl would have less entitlement towards schools and realize that theres actual goods and services being sold, their would be alternative options or funding from communal orgs

amother

Marigold ↓

Yesterday at 10:54 pm

amother Zinnia wrote:

Kosherqween. thinks most people are making enough to cover rent & Tuition. Seriously, she also thinks most of has are able to have CC that have a $100,000k max. Seriously, who has that kind of Credit Card lines unless they are making alot of money??

Don't forget her daddy's credit cards too! I've sent to public school and I highly recommend it! My children were actually educated and helped