S/O from school taking drastic measures thread

amother

Salmon

Today at 11:34 am

amother Seagreen wrote:

In my world, I see teachers and Rebbeim living threadbare lives also.
Administrators are living comfortably.

There are constant push and campaigns to collect for the Rebbeim and teachers (bar mitzvah funds, chasuna funds, chasdei lev, regular tips).

The problem that is being ignored is the 60-70% of the class/community that is struggling. Making 150k with no programs, no benefits.
But it's assumed "they're rich" and they're being pressured and harassed to donate to the Rebbi fund constantly when they can't afford basics.

We're in that category. My husband works ft and makes 100k (including a 3 hour round trip commute so he's out of the house 11 1/2 hours a day).
I make 30k working 9-3 while my kids are in school.

We have to beg for tuition breaks. After all, we're rich baalebatim /s we should pay full 10k per kid.
We get called constantly. "The Rebbi is making a chasuna, can you give $1800 to make it bakovodik" (at the more expensive hall with the upgrades).
We're pressured to donate to the Chasdei lev programs so the Rebbeim's family have meat every day of yom Tov while we don't have any red meat. So the Rebbeim's family goes to Dorney Park on Chol Hamoed while we play soccer in the park, etc.

Im not jealous. Im frustrated.
We can't afford our life, stop pressuring us to pay for upgrades in the Rebbis life.

Stop making us out to some rich people who refuse to pay tuition. We can't afford it - we don't have food stamps or Medicaid. Sometimes we are making the choice between bread, milk, and bananas for the family vs paying tuition on time. When the school harasses me that I'm a week late, it's not because of vacations and designer clothes. It's because I prioritized $100 to cover a doctor's visit and antibiotics for my 6 month old with 103 fever- but I need to pay because I have a high deductible.

The top 20% creates a program for the bottom 20% and then can't understand why the middle 60% isn't paying up

Couldn’t have said it better! This is exactly how most of us ‘rich middle class’ feels.
And when I go to teachers houses on Purim, no, not all of them are living in tiny houses. Some of the teachers houses look better than mine. Teachers get to buy clothes and shoes from DWD for $10.
I’m saying no to my DD who wants something her friend, daughter of a chinch couple has, because I can’t afford it. Don’t make me feel guilty to donate to the teachers bonus campaign.
I don’t buy meat on yom tov. Am I supposed to donate to my kids teachers can have meat? Or can I maybe keep that money and buy something for myself? Or is that somehow selfish?

amother

Beige

Today at 11:40 am

At the risk of sounding like a cranky old lady I'll say this. From my prospective you look at lakewood, monsey full of upscale eateries, full every night. (You dont hear of the restaurants [gentile] g out of business the way yiu hear about schools going out of business.) High class clothing stores, every gimmick you can think of you can buy here. The gashmius has been blown so out of control it's mind blowing. ( now before you all yell at me take a good look around. I grew up in this town. I miss it terribly) all the frum women on Instagram are busy " influencing" other frum women of all the things we "neeeed" use code xyz. Open up any frum magazine and half of it is ads for all the things we must have. Frum society, social pressures have put us in this very dark hole we're in now. And unfortunately I Don't see us climbing out any time soon.

amother

↑ Mimosa ↓

Today at 11:40 am

amother Salmon wrote:

Well said. Here's a current example. Being that's it chanukah season, I'm being pressured to send in $20-30 tips for teachers per child. I don't have excess money, I am on a very tight budget. It's going to come down to celebrating chanukah with my children or tipping teachers. The school is not letting up with applying pressure to collect those tips, and they're using my kids to do that. Why oh why must I be put in this position? Am I a bad mother for prioritizing my family?

amother

↑ Tealblue

Today at 11:41 am

No this thread is a breakaway from a different thread discussing drastic measures other yeshivish schools were taking. Payment was so low that teachers couldn't be paid. Consequently, children were not allowed to attend school if parents were not up to date. I don't think there is a single MO school in this situation. There is no magical solution. But, in the yeshivish circles where a secular education is frowned upon, we are actively making it more and more difficult to earn an honest, good living, making it more likely people will not be able to pay tuition or sustain this lifestyle! Not everyone is cut out for business or nursing home management. We'd probably also have fewer financial scandals rocking these communities with more education. We live OOT- both educated professionals and our kids attend a non-MO day school. We are making it just fine. Tuition is very high- and we could certainly have a nicer house, fancier cars, and nicer vacations if not for tuition- but it is what it is. We live simply and it mostly works. We are not desperate. We make ends meet. It's all up to Hashem- but it doesn't hurt that we are both well-educated with decent careers and we do not send to a MO school- that would have a much higher tuition.

amother

Peach

Today at 12:39 pm

amother Lemon wrote:

The solution is to re-route the hundreds of millions of communal tzeddaka money currently going to support able bodied men learning in kollel in America and eretz Yisroel. If our yeshivas and bais Yaakov’s are struggling to this extent then it’s a no brainer that our children’s essential chinuch must come before grown men.

The problem is that it's not going to be rerouted. You can't force people to give to a tzedakah they don't want to give to... it's just not going to happen.

I do think that at least part of the solution is lowering communal standards. When it's a "must" to spend hundreds of dollars I don't have to pay for clothing and stuff for camp so that my daughter shouldn't feel like an outcast... something is wrong. When we are forced to make simchos on a standard that we can't afford because we must... it's a problem.

amother

DarkGreen

Today at 12:43 pm

amother Peach wrote:

This. You don't get to spend others' money, and that includes their tzedakah money. We all need to be looking at what we, ourselves, can change.

Rosegold22

Today at 12:45 pm

amother Oatmeal wrote:

Communities where there is a higher level of secular education are not doing better than Lakewood on average financially.

The average secular career path to comfortable upper middle class with a family size of 2.5 (engineer, PA, CPA, etc) is basically poverty level for a family with 8-10 children.

So many couples making over 250k which is in the upper percentiles of secular society are posting on Imamother that they are drowning.

So maybe the issue can be boiled down to that we have too many kids... I know this is very controversial and not our hashkafa, but logically life will be harder financially if your family size is too big for your income. Do people consider that when they family plan?

amother

↑ Mimosa ↓

Today at 1:13 pm

amother Peach wrote:

Why not? If the community starts promoting the spiritual needs and blessing of supporting chinuch and in parallel move away from heavily promoting kollel funds, you will see a change. It will be slow but steady.

People donate where there is the loudest noise. Start the campaigns, honor those people who support schools and watch the shift.

amother

↑ Dandelion

Today at 1:25 pm

amother IndianRed wrote:

MO school tuition is much higher than nonMO school tuition. I’d guess that’s because they hire college educated staff at schools and pay them accordingly, which increases the cost of schooling.

For reference, tuition in Lakewood for an elementary girls school is at most 11k annually (as far as I’m aware). Most schools are lower than that. The average MO tuition is at least several thousand more than that.

Tuition at MO schools is far more than a few thousand dollars.

In my experience it is pretty equivalent to very good secular private schools. Tuition at one school ranges from $25,000 for first grade to $39,000 for high school grades.

Even if one has only two or even three children, that is an enormous expense to pay after taxes.

amother

Mayflower

Today at 4:18 pm

amother Tealblue wrote:

The school that sparked the discussion has a lot of parents making a “good income”. But it’s a younger community and you can’t compare col and housing to when you got settled (I assume).
Personally we live elsewhere but we bought a smaller house last year, with a mortgage of 7k a month! We bh make around 300k combined but we live really tight to pay full tuition and as we iyh have more kids enter school I can see it being harder cvs. Iyh we should all be blessed with shefa but this is not only a low income problem.