Kollel/working men rant

amother

OP ↓

Yesterday at 12:09 pm

I really cannot understand why we keep pushing the kollel lifestyle
Some of the attitudes I see are plain disgusting. I have a family member who has a bunch of kids, wants to buy a house. Been getting support from parents since they got married.
But just a house isn’t good enough. Husband wants only a certain area near yeshiva that they can’t afford. Not only that, it’s not enough to have a regular house. It has to be renovated- new bathrooms and kitchen. Otherwise it’s not livable. And they’re expecting the parents to just pay up
Hello?! Plenty of working families can’t buy houses, let alone renovate them. If you want to live a high life get up and work instead of shnorring from others.
I don’t get why kollel is put on such a pedestal. I don’t think there’s anything great about it unless parents are billionaires or husband has a business he works on on the side or whatever.
Wives are getting burnt out, handling working, kids, dinner, cleaning house, laundry. When the kids grow up who’s paying for their wedding? Yeshiva?
I don’t know I guess I’m just annoyed. I made sure to marry a working boy to avoid all this but when this family member says wow you guys are earning x amount and she thinks it’s so much, in my head I’m like that includes rent which u dont pay. And clothing for me and baby because we dont get gift cards.
Besides the fact that a man needs to be responsible and take care of his wife and step up if she’s overwhelmed, don’t send her to work just so u can sit and learn

amother

Eggshell

Yesterday at 12:12 pm

This sounds tough to have a family member like this. But don't throw out the baby with the bathwater. Majority of kollel people don't act this way...in fact I don't even see the connection.

Come to my neighborhood of committed kollel yungerleit living far out in small not redone houses running our own Sunday clubs to save on costs.

amother

Seashell

Yesterday at 12:13 pm

amother OP wrote:

I agree totally and completely but just to clarify, marrying a working guy doesn’t solve everything. My DH has been working all our married life and makes very little. So we still need help (we don’t have demands but we are working hard and still aren’t making it)

amother

Crocus ↓

Yesterday at 12:19 pm

So you don’t like entitlement…nothing to do with kollel.

As for your complaint about the man providing-my husband in kollel makes sure to go on time to everything, to get all the shmiras sedorim and even habochen (tests) checks. He does all the laundry and food shopping, packs up the kids with lunches, brings them to playgroup and picks them up. He takes care of the cars, the bills, the dishes and about a million other things.

amother

Firethorn

Yesterday at 12:23 pm

amother OP wrote:

This. Whole communties being in kollel is not an old idea. It should not be put on a pedestal at all.

Brit in Israel

Yesterday at 12:26 pm

Teach your kids to appreciate what they have, to understand the value of money regardless of what 'everyone else has.
Regardless of if they are marrying someone in Kollel for 1 yr, 5 yrs, 40 yrs, or if they are marrying someone already working.

I'm sorry to take away what you are blaming but it's not Kollel it's the actual couple and the way they were brought up!

calvinhobbs

Yesterday at 12:28 pm

I think you’re describing a couple of entitled adults that believe a house should be delivered with their specifications all paid for by others. Regardless of the males occupation, let’s not gloss over this; they seem tone deaf and selfish.
We all know people who scraped together Pennie’s and borrowed thousands to buy a property and lived like shlumps until they could afford to renovate it a bit. Their behavior is the exact opposite.
If I may add, they both seem to have bad middot or at least one of them is feeding off the other.
On the other hand, you seem to be conscientious and responsible and you knew to look for a partner that could provide in a way that befits you. Yet, the stark difference between the relative and yourself is creating strife. Be it between the two of you or just within yourself.
It’s harder said than done but it’s so true. Believe with your heart and soul that no one receives a penny that is not intended for them. You will have a house that is predestined for you and she cannot take that away or make that smaller. And bonus- how much better will you feel when it’s your man that provides for you rather than the community, family, or gift cards.

amother

Slategray ↓

Yesterday at 12:29 pm

amother OP wrote:

It’s not just on one person
Most of the kollel couples I know live this way. Bash me all you want, I just dont see the true kollel couples anymore.

Come to my neighbourhood.....
I'm a Kollel couple have been doing it for BH the past 8.5 yrs we got about $550 help for the first year and absolutely so thankful for that. We lived in a dingy apartment far away from friends as that was what we could afford. DH had to travel 30 mins to Kollel and on days I worked from the office I travelled 1.5 hrs each way. We are in the same area just upgraded to a different rental as we couldn't fit even a crib in the bedroom, it meant doing 6 flights of stairs to leave the house but I just looked at it as not having to pay a gym membership (ironically it was my quickest and easiest birth and now that we are in a ground floor apartment I wish I had the stairs just for whilst I'm pregnant)
With miracles and alot of savings we managed to buy an apartment in a new project that is being built. It's in a really random area so hopefully we will be able to sell it and buy locally but if not we will be commuting everyday until we can sell or rent it.
It is our choice as we chose Kollel lifestyle and it means seeing how much money comes into our account after I've worked for 9.5 hrs each day and dh has taken on a job in the evenings and we budgeted accordingly.
I'm not the only one like this, atleast 50-80% of my neighbourhood is.

There is something wrong with the way parents are educating where you live, everyone is bringing there kids up according to what they assume the Shapiro's have or can afford.

amother

Brickred

Yesterday at 12:29 pm

amother Chambray wrote:

Bashing an entire community for 1 bad apple is so out of line. You wouldn't like it if people did it to _____ [whatever group you're a part of]. Trust that there are enough entitled brats in every group of people.

It's not so much the bad apple. It's the putting the kollel lifestyle on a pedestal, which then disenfranchises the lower working class. They get tuition breaks more easily, have all kinds of organizations helping them etc. while the lower working class is deemed second place and has immense financial struggles. You can have a kollel family and a working family with comparable income, but the kollel family gets all kinds of help, while the working family is beaten down with no assistance. And to boot, they are considered second class.

amother

White

Yesterday at 12:32 pm

Can you ignore them and focus on the real kollel families. My sister lives in a small apartment, rusty cars, hand me downs ect... She barely works between food stamps, section 8 , heap ect so she gets to be super focused on her kids. Does not rely on handouts (happy to take hand me downs though) none of her hard working siblings resent her. We actually really admire her commitment to her lifestyle and I will say most of us can not live like that despite what were told in school/seminary

amother

↑ Chambray

Yesterday at 12:34 pm

amother Brickred wrote:

That's not the narrative op shared at all.