Kollel/working men rant

amother

Scarlet ↓

Yesterday at 12:39 pm

I don't know where you know all these people living like that, but that's not what I see. I see REAL kollel families living on much lower budgets, driving very old and ugly minivans, using hand me downs, and making do with less.

amother

↑ Scarlet ↓

Yesterday at 12:41 pm

We have been a kollel family for more than 20 years bh.
NOT supported. We work hard and spend less.
We are happy doing what we are doing, not burnt out and not shnorring.

amother

↑ Crocus

Yesterday at 12:43 pm

Also not everyone who you think is spoiled actually is. My family is wealthy and I’m sure everyone around me thinks that we’re just living it up while in kollel…when in reality we both work very hard, my parents did give us $1500 a month for the first 3 years which is really really nice. But they are not “buying us a house” or helping with a down payment like everyone seems to assume they are. Which is fine, I don’t expect them to. But I’m not just rolling in money like people seem to think…

amother

Leaf

Yesterday at 12:43 pm

I know hundreds of kollel people they all live in tiny simple homes. Just because you know someone with issues doesn’t mean you get to project on to a whole group of people. Such a disturbing post.

yiddishmom

Yesterday at 12:46 pm

I don't understand why everyone is so obsessed about this.

I married a man who worked for a few years before we got married precisely for this reason.

Two of his sisters married long term learners.

Yes, my in laws give them much more money than we get. Okay? What difference does it make.

My life is mine.

And theirs is theirs.

Move on. If they start asking you for money? Now that's a different story. And you simply answer "no, sorry".

End of story.

Why the constant rants?? Did anyone force you to pay their bills?

amother

Wandflower

Yesterday at 12:48 pm

Writergirl wrote:

Can I just point out how many kollel families are part of the Middle class and don't get all of these vouchers and gift cards that seem to exist only on imamother? We're working so hard and cutting corners in every area. Many of us are not on programs and are hit on all ends like the rest of the middle class.

Yup there are plenty of us working kollel wives that with our salaries put our families in the solid middle class.

amother

Daisy

Yesterday at 12:48 pm

amother OP wrote:

It’s not just on one person
Most of the kollel couples I know live this way. Bash me all you want, I just dont see the true kollel couples anymore.

I’m sorry that has been your experience with kollel couples
I have many family members in kollel and non of them live like you are describing.
Can it be that the kollel couples you know come from rich background?
Becouse the average kollel family does not live with this level of entitlement.

amother

Jean ↓

Yesterday at 12:54 pm

amother Pewter wrote:

That’s not a kollel issue it’s a middos issue

There are plenty in kollel who don’t act that way at all.

This!!!
Very entitled attitude

Completely off and a middos issue feeling bad for the parents here enabling it!

amother

Apple ↓

Yesterday at 1:05 pm

A man being in kollel is by definition entitled.
This has to be emphasized. It is a privilege that involves sacrifice on many, the least of which is the man actually learning.
I am in absolute awe of kollel wives, they have taken on tremendous burdens so their husbands can learn.
I think the bochurim or men need to be taught that they should be grateful for every level of sacrifice their family members (wives, parents, children) endure for this privilege.
It is possible for people who do not work for their money or their income to be disillusioned when it comes to cost and budgets. It is possible for such people to have unealistic expectations of gashmius. I don't think this is kollel wide issue but I can see how it can happen to individuals.

jd1212

Yesterday at 1:26 pm

amother White wrote:

Can you ignore them and focus on the real kollel families. My sister lives in a small apartment, rusty cars, hand me downs ect... She barely works between food stamps, section 8 , heap ect so she gets to be super focused on her kids. Does not rely on handouts (happy to take hand me downs though) none of her hard working siblings resent her. We actually really admire her commitment to her lifestyle and I will say most of us can not live like that despite what were told in school/seminary

What exactly is a handout if not food stamps, section 8, etc.? That’s literally taxpayer funded welfare for poor people.

amother

Hibiscus ↓

Yesterday at 1:47 pm

I agree, I think kollel has gotten out of hand. How is almost every boy wanting to sit and learn a few years and then wake up 3 kids down the line and figure out how to make money??
I believe kollel should be for the select few, not the entire community - with the bills nowadays it's not sustainable.
Boys are pushed into learning, because it's what the "good boys" do, not to mention it's much simpler than figuring out life, getting a degree or trade and making money.
And then the girls go to BY and sem where the msg they hear is "the best way to serve Hashem is marrying a boy who learns" and since it's "ideal" and they want to be good girls, they go for the learning boy.
I personally married a man with a good, well-paying job when all my friends married learners and are living off their parents. And I'm glad I didnt have to strain my parents and in laws, and glad to that I can live a comfortable life on two incomes.

amother

↑ Scarlet ↓

Yesterday at 2:06 pm

amother Apple wrote:

If you can make that statement, you clearly have NO idea what kollel learning is about, why people do it, why normal and sane women sign up for it, and what it entails for the learning man. NO clue. You are just announcing your ignorance on this topic, because you are SO way off base.

amother

↑ Apple

Yesterday at 2:08 pm

amother Scarlet wrote:

Is the better word privileged?

amother

Magnolia

Yesterday at 2:12 pm

OP THANK YOU!!!
Finally a kollel bashing thread that started out that way unlike so many other Imamother threads that devolve into kollel bashing from an innocent OP. The thread title says it all, plainly and clearly. That being said, get a life.

amother

↑ Scarlet ↓

Yesterday at 2:17 pm

amother Apple wrote:

Is the better word privileged?

Privileged in the same sense as anyone who is pursuing a lofty goal that they are passionate about, such as someone setting out to find a cure to a disease.
Not without hard work and sacrifice.
And it is very much giving to the klal just as a medical researcher is.

Kollel men are not "living off" of others. This is a joint passion and investement that has a positive gain for the whole family and beyond.

ETA: this is really just a tip of the iceberg, there is a lot more that I don't have time to elaborate on.

amother

Moonstone ↓

Yesterday at 2:19 pm

amother OP wrote:

It’s not just on one person
Most of the kollel couples I know live this way. Bash me all you want, I just dont see the true kollel couples anymore.

I met a couple like that and was shocked. The man was around 40 years old and said he expected his in laws to pay for a new car since his parents had paid for the last one. And then he said " I am not worried, I davened for a new car on Rosh Hashana, and Hashem always provides!" I was floored.
There are also many wonderful sweet and humble Kollel families though.

What bothers me the most is that we were told in sem that working boys aren't good boys. Only kollel boys are good. Ans this was a BT sem!!! I honestly believed that working boys were bad people. It's sick to put sth like that into ppls heads.. especially Baal teshuvas who don't know many frum ppl and can't find out if that's even true at all!!!!

amother

↑ Scarlet ↓

Yesterday at 2:25 pm

amother Moonstone wrote:

What bothers me the most is that we were told in sem that working boys aren't good boys. Only kollel boys are good. Ans this was a BT sem!!! I honestly believed that working boys were bad people. It's sick to put sth like that into ppls heads.. especially Baal teshuvas who don't know many frum ppl and can't find out if that's even true at all!!!!

That is very surprising. The importance is for the boy to be machshiv torah and learning. Of course good torahdik boys can be working, as long as they are machshiv torah and set aside time to learn.

The kollel life is not for everyone, that doesn't mean they aren't good boys.

amother

↑ Slategray ↓

Yesterday at 2:25 pm

amother Scarlet wrote:

What she wrote is true in the same sense that being a sahm is also entitled.

amother

↑ Scarlet

Yesterday at 2:28 pm

amother Slategray wrote:

What she wrote is true in the same sense that being a sahm is also entitled.

I don't think sahm's are entitled either. Privileged, yes.