Dina or Dalia: opinions

↑ Bnei Berak 10

Yesterday at 1:03 pm

Chayalle wrote:

Honestly I find this strange. Dina is a name from the Torah. She was the daughter of Yaakov Avinu, and her daughter was the mother of Shevet Yosef.

Some say it has the connotation of midat ha'din.
Also some avoid Daniel for the same reason.
There's is always an option of check with a gadol if the name is suitable for the child.

amother

↑ Catmint ↓

Yesterday at 1:26 pm

amother Dodgerblue wrote:

What do you mean by “according to Torah”? Names that appear in the Torah are all considered real names but we obviously don’t use the ones with a bad association like Esav, Nimrod, Paroh or Lavan. Names of objects from the Torah aren’t considered names, they’re names of objects in lashon kodesh.

We believe in a concept of generations becoming weaker. It’s kind of the opposite of Darwinism. Spiritually we’re moving away from the pinnacle which was maamad Har Sina, and our spiritual strength is on a steady downward trajectory.
The names that the Avos and Imahos chose for their children or names like Avraham, Sarah, Yisrael and Yehoshua that Hashem gave, obviously have a mesora and we continue to use them. We still give credit to our ancestors in later generations to have given names with spiritual significance and continue to use names they gave. We don’t give ourselves the same credit, so names that people just started to use in the last hundred years or so, especially names chosen by non observant individuals, aren’t considered Jewish names with a mesora.

I know this will be unpopular. You asked so I answered. Giving a baby a Jewish name is important. If you want to give your kids the gift of a genuine Jewish name, best speak your lor.

When I say according to Torah I mean there a way to give a Jewish name, be it at a Bris or at the Torah reading.

Are you saying that only names that were used in Tana h as names are names for your community? So no Arye? No Dov? Are those not names?
These are words in Torah but not names
I understand if that's your mesorah, I've never heard of this and trying to understand if this is a thing

amother

↑ Dodgerblue ↓

Yesterday at 2:15 pm

amother Catmint wrote:

I don’t think you read my post.
You give a name at a bris or Torah reading but if you name your baby boy Jared or Keith, even if you do so at his bris, that doesn’t make the name Jewish.
It seems you really are interested in understanding what makes a name Jewish. Your best bet is talking to your rav and have him help you out with that and answer your questions. Don’t worry, he won’t tell you what to name your baby, he knows it’s not his choice to make. He can help you understand where Jewish names come from and he can help you decide between names if you want his advice on that.

amother

↑ Dodgerblue ↓

Yesterday at 2:23 pm

amother Catmint wrote:

In my community if you're named something by the Torah it's a name, not saying there isn't value in traditional names/naming after someone etc
But technical Halacha if someone's named Chultza or Shulchan it would be a name

If at the bris the person calling out the name says it’s shulchan then you’re right, that’s your son’s name. You didn’t give him a Jewish name with a mesora though, and that’s something every child needs.
There’s a mohel at a bris and he’s generally a learned person. Dh’s good friend is a mohel and sometimes does a bris for families that are far removed from Judaism. First he makes sure the mother is Jewish. He also makes sure the baby gets a Jewish name. He’s been asked to name the baby non Jewish names. He tells the parents they can call him what they want but at the bris their baby’s getting a Jewish name. It’s happened that they’re so far from anything that they have no ideas and ask him to choose the name, which he does. If they asked him to name the baby shulchan he’d probably not do that. Similarly at a Torah reading there’s a gabbai, a baal koreh and usually a rabbi present and they won’t allow you to name your baby chultzah.

keym

Yesterday at 2:27 pm

In my Lakewood community, Dena would be more common than Dalia.
But Dena is not "too" common.
In an average high school, maybe there will be 1 Dalia if at all in the entire school, but 1-3 Denas per grade.

Another point. Dena is a universal name so the nurses and receptionists will get it right, no stumbling. Dalia maybe not as much.

amother

↑ Catmint ↓

Yesterday at 3:07 pm

amother Dodgerblue wrote:

Interesting you think I didn't read your post when I did and was responding to it...

To the best of my knowledge if a baby is named Jared AT A BRIS then HALACHICALLY that would be his Jewish name, I don't see how it can be otherwise. There isn't a pool of names that are "Jewish" and never change, there have always been more names added throughout the generations.
OOC, does your community only name names that appear in Tanach?

amother

↑ Catmint ↓

Yesterday at 3:10 pm

amother Dodgerblue wrote:

I agree with the importance of Mesora and that names carry meaning form previous generations which we want the child to be connected to. I'm not the type to make up a new new name.
But if someone did and named their child in the proper Jewish way that would be their name. Regardless of my preference in names. Or my community norms.
The fact that their named properly at a Bris or by the Torah makes it so that IS their Jewish name. Your DH's friend's policy nonwithsatnding.

amother

Blue

Yesterday at 3:31 pm

amother Ivory wrote:

It's the name of a flower in Hebrew. If I'm not mistaken the same flower is also called dalia in Arabic and it is also an Arab name. But then again so is Sarah, Miriam, Haya, etc...actually, I think Dina may also be a name used by Arabs.

It's also the name of a flower in English, but it's spelled dahlia.

amother

↑ Dodgerblue

Yesterday at 4:36 pm

amother Catmint wrote:

You are correct that it’s their name. I already said that. It doesn’t become a Jewish name. If at his bris you name your son George, it’s his name. The boy has a name. He does not have a Jewish name. My husband’s friend deals with people who want their baby to have a bris and for whatever reason they want it done right. There are many others not like them who just have the baby circumcised at the hospital. That’s going way off topic. If you don’t want to give your baby a Jewish name, as the parent, it’s your choice.

amother

↑ Catmint ↓

Yesterday at 5:12 pm

amother Dodgerblue wrote:

No, it is their Halachic Jewish name. If someone wasn't named in the Torah way but his legal name is Jared, he can and ideally should still be named at a Bris/the Torah. But if he was given that name at a Bris (while possibly not ideal) it is his Jewish name. He was named already according to Torah.

amother

↑ Ivory

Today at 2:26 am

amother Brown wrote:

Alexander is a jewish name. Originally named for Alexander the Great-a non jew. So if Alexander can be a jewish name, I guess Jared or Keith would be too if given those names at their Bris

Well Jared is actually a biblical name, so in that sense it already is "more Jewish" than Alexander ( or maybe not because I think he was one of the generations before Avraham and I can't remember exactly what we know about himm, if h he was a tzaddik or otherwise. )