Please explain Chardal hashkafa to me

amother

Turquoise

Today at 8:09 am

amother Eggplant wrote:

I feel like there's no space and schools for healthy unrebellious modern charedi

They are trying in RBS with schools like Magen Avot and Bnos Malka, Darchei Noam, and more, with varying degrees of success. It's importing an American mentality, so not easy.

samo ↓

Today at 8:49 am

I’m glad to see this thread I’ve actually always wondered myself. Some really interesting and beautiful descriptions here. I’m particularly interested in the differences in tzanua. Like they are so passionate and makpid on things but when it comes to what the women wear or how they cover their hair, it doesn’t even seem like Halacha is being followed. I’m not judging! Really just curious as to what is behind that.

↑ Reality

Today at 9:23 am

samo wrote:

Maybe phrase your question better! Saying I'm not judging doesn't exonerate you from saying chardali women don't follow halacha!

The fact that you can even write that shows me you have no clue what chardali means. Married chardali women cover their hair completely with a mitpachat. They dress in non-form fitting clothes that cover everything. Just because they don't follow the chareidi cultural halachic rulings regarding collarbone and sandals, for example, does not mean they don't dress tznius.

↑ essie14

Today at 9:25 am

samo wrote:

Today's episode of the 18Forty podcast touches on this.
It's an excellent episode.

shabbatiscoming

Today at 9:56 am

samo wrote:

The fact that you wrote this leads me to wonder about 2 things:
1. You must not live in Israel
2. You have no idea what chardal truly is.
A chardal woman is completely tzanua. Completely.

↑ samo

Today at 10:11 am

shabbatiscoming wrote:

The fact that you wrote this leads me to wonder about 2 things:
1. You must not live in Israel
2. You have no idea what chardal truly is.
A chardal woman is completely tzanua. Completely.

It’s true! I have no idea and I don’t live in EY. But I have been to EY and even here I see people like this and when I see lots of hair being shown, legs uncovered, open collarbones and elbows- I really just wonder.

amother

Chambray

Today at 10:22 am

samo wrote:

That would be Dati leumi ladies, not chardal

↑ Elfrida

Today at 10:27 am

samo wrote:

The halacha is a lot wider than the commonly accepted Beis Yaakov standards. Yes, there are some people who take the most lenient opinion they can find, and then push so that it's something loosely approximating that. That is more within tbe Dati Leumi community, which covers a broad spectrum.

There are others, generally defined as chardal, who study the halacha in depth, know exactly what they are talking about, and choose to follow a certain opinion. Shivim panim l'Torah, and more than one halachic view can be valid. What matters is that they dress a certain way based on solid halachic views, not just because they feel like it.

There's one shiur I go to where the woman teaching exposes more of her hair than I do, and doesn't wear tights in the summer. She also has a doctorate in Tanach/talmud, davens at least twice a day, and I would say her level of avodat Hashem far exceeds mine. If you ask about her dress, she is able to quote from the gemara to modern day poskim discussing the matter, and will explain exactly what opinion she relies on. She grew up in Beis Yaakov, by the way, but found other, equally valid, ways to be oved Hashem.