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Forum
-> Chinuch, Education & Schooling
How are you managing the tuition pressure this year?
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| Great, donating extra on top of tuition |
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9% |
[ 12 ] |
| Good, making it with some wiggle room in the budget |
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18% |
[ 23 ] |
| Ok, we’re paid up but stretching very uncomfortably |
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34% |
[ 43 ] |
| Bad, paid up but cannot pay other necessities |
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18% |
[ 23 ] |
| Bad, delaying payments and cannot pay other necessities |
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19% |
[ 25 ] |
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| Total Votes : 126 |
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amother
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 Tue, Nov 19 2024, 2:24 am
| amother Zinnia wrote: | It actually would NOT cover a whole lot of tuition. It would cover a fraction of tuition for ONE child!
Can we never live normally because of tuition? Do we really need to give a kallah a cereal box ring? |
12k in gifts is just the tip of the iceberg. Our Rav told us the average cgasunah in Lakewood is 75k to 95k PER SIDE and most families take some form of tzedaka help. Many families are making chasunahs every other year. There’s lots of spending there that could go to tuition instead.
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amother
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Tue, Nov 19 2024, 3:06 am
| amother Amber wrote: | | 12k in gifts is just the tip of the iceberg. Our Rav told us the average cgasunah in Lakewood is 75k to 95k PER SIDE and most families take some form of tzedaka help. Many families are making chasunahs every other year. There’s lots of spending there that could go to tuition instead. |
I don't know who your Rav is, but I'm an average Lakewood family who just made a wedding in Bais Fayga... as average as it gets. I think Bais Fayga costs around $12,000 TOTAL both sides so I'm not sure where your Rav is getting his numbers from.
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amother
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Tue, Nov 19 2024, 7:05 am
| amother Amber wrote: | | 12k in gifts is just the tip of the iceberg. Our Rav told us the average cgasunah in Lakewood is 75k to 95k PER SIDE and most families take some form of tzedaka help. Many families are making chasunahs every other year. There’s lots of spending there that could go to tuition instead. |
Idk who your rav is, maybe you need a new crowd. And rav.
But your numbers are. made. up. In the Cheder, takana, it's about 20k divided between the 2. (1/3-2/3). Usually this includes flops & the chassan isn't spending 80k on gifts & gowns.
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amother
Ruby
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Tue, Nov 19 2024, 7:13 am
| amother Amber wrote: | | 12k in gifts is just the tip of the iceberg. Our Rav told us the average cgasunah in Lakewood is 75k to 95k PER SIDE and most families take some form of tzedaka help. Many families are making chasunahs every other year. There’s lots of spending there that could go to tuition instead. |
Does your Rav live in Lakewood?
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amother
Papaya
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Tue, Nov 19 2024, 7:19 am
Wow this really feels like a Lakewood bashing thread. There are over 150,000 frum Jews in the Lakewood area. You think we’re all bad and materialistic and snobby? What in the world
The Lakewood hate from OOT people is horrific. All about the middos out of town- sorry but hard to say you love your fellow Jews when you’re bashing the biggest Jewish community outside of EY.
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amother
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Tue, Nov 19 2024, 7:28 am
| amother Lily wrote: | Idk who your rav is, maybe you need a new crowd. And rav.
But your numbers are. made. up. In the Cheder, takana, it's about 20k divided between the 2. (1/3-2/3). Usually this includes flops & the chassan isn't spending 80k on gifts & gowns. |
It’s Lakewood. Middle class working families. The hall is a fraction of chasunah expenses.
(And by the way, your average Lakewood boy and girl will agree to get married in any takana hall except for Bais Faiga, adding 8-10k to the total hall cost. Remember, this Is not a bar mitzvah. There are two sides you are dealing with, and have to accommodate, plus a young couple that has their own mind and has expectations from their friends and circles.
The numbers are completely accurate and not made up. You are forgetting that a catered shabbos aufraf/ sheva brachos in a hall for a large family, considered standard these days, is a minimum 5-8k.
7 dates over 4 month engagement with car rental is over 1k. Chosson kallah classes 1500. Shadchan 1800 each side. Mens and boys hats, suits and shoes at today’s standards is 500-800 a piece, into the thousands for a large family. Flights back for siblings from Israel, sometimes more than one.
Makeup, hair, shaitels, gowns, furniture, car for new couple, vort with music and photographer, housewares, catered shabbos sheva brachos, etc. are all on a very high standard even among those who are taking help nowadays. Makeup and hair for a large family alone can run over 2k. Vort and sheva brachos outfits and a coat for kallah a couple thousand minimum at regular Lakewood standards. We made a takana wedding, gave only expected typical gifts, and spent relatively frugally, coming in cheaper than most people I know and ended up with 65k one side. And that was with paying a total of $350 for the kallah gown (alterations only) - $1-2k is not unusual.
I could show you the spreadsheet. Standards nowadays are really high. Chassanim and Kallahs even from struggling families expect new furniture, custom shaitels, a relatively newish car, two to three bedroom apartment to start out and so much else that we did without years ago. If you end up spending less than 75k per side even with a takana wedding consider yourselves lucky.
Take the average furniture package today. A complete package that is acceptable to most typical chassanim and kallahs is 8-11k. Unless you were lucky enough to marry into another exceptionally frugal family, try convincing the other side that secondhand furniture is OK or that the couple can make two with a beater car. What’s more important? Saving the money or shalom by meeting the other sides typical expectations.
TDL, shul funds, and other chasunah help organizations are helping a huge percentage of Lakewood families with communal funds that aren’t going towards school tuition as well.
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amother
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Tue, Nov 19 2024, 8:25 am
| amother Amber wrote: | It’s Lakewood. Middle class working families. The hall is a fraction of chasunah expenses.
(And by the way, your average Lakewood boy and girl will agree to get married in any takana hall except for Bais Faiga, adding 8-10k to the total hall cost. Remember, this Is not a bar mitzvah. There are two sides you are dealing with, and have to accommodate, plus a young couple that has their own mind and has expectations from their friends and circles.
The numbers are completely accurate and not made up. You are forgetting that a catered shabbos aufraf/ sheva brachos in a hall for a large family, considered standard these days, is a minimum 5-8k.
7 dates over 4 month engagement with car rental is over 1k. Chosson kallah classes 1500. Shadchan 1800 each side. Mens and boys hats, suits and shoes at today’s standards is 500-800 a piece, into the thousands for a large family. Flights back for siblings from Israel, sometimes more than one.
Makeup, hair, shaitels, gowns, furniture, car for new couple, vort with music and photographer, housewares, catered shabbos sheva brachos, etc. are all on a very high standard even among those who are taking help nowadays. Makeup and hair for a large family alone can run over 2k. Vort and sheva brachos outfits and a coat for kallah a couple thousand minimum at regular Lakewood standards. We made a takana wedding, gave only expected typical gifts, and spent relatively frugally, coming in cheaper than most people I know and ended up with 65k one side.
I could show you the spreadsheet. Standards nowadays are really high. Chassanim and Kallahs even from struggling families expect new furniture, custom shaitels, a relatively newish car, two to three bedroom apartment to start out and so much else that we did without years ago. If you end up spending less than 75k per side even with a takana wedding consider yourselves lucky.
Take the average furniture package today. A complete package that is acceptable to most typical chassanim and kallahs is 8-11k. Unless you were lucky enough to marry into another exceptionally frugal family, try convincing the other side that secondhand furniture is OK or that the couple can make two with a beater car. What’s more important? Saving the money or shalom by meeting the other sides typical expectations.
TDL, shul funds, and other chasunah help organizations are helping a huge percentage of Lakewood families with communal funds that aren’t going towards school tuition as well. |
Yes, I actually do want to see your spreadsheet. We also recently made a wedding bh and it cost us around 30k, and that included stuff that we would need to buy anyway, such as suit/clothing for the chasan and family, Shabbos dresses for me and daughters. Expenses such as car, apartment, furniture, you will need to spend regardless, and since the boy will be learning in kollel and the girl needs to save her money, who else will pay? Maybe it's the system of kollel that should be abolished?
Also, the entire budget of TDL is a tiny, tiny fraction of how much it would cost to sponsor tuition for everybody, and besides, it's not necessarily the same money.
Yes, I would like to see your spreadsheet. And then I'll share how we did it for half.
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mfb
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Tue, Nov 19 2024, 9:00 am
| amother Lily wrote: | Idk who your rav is, maybe you need a new crowd. And rav.
But your numbers are. made. up. In the Cheder, takana, it's about 20k divided between the 2. (1/3-2/3). Usually this includes flops & the chassan isn't spending 80k on gifts & gowns. |
Yes it costs close to $100,000 if you include vort, clothing for everyone, furniture, kitchen and other things to set up apartment….
Shaitel for kallah. All the gifts…
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amother
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Tue, Nov 19 2024, 9:01 am
| mfb wrote: | Yes it costs close to $100,000 if you include vort, clothing for everyone, furniture, kitchen and other things to set up apartment….
Shaitel for kallah. All the gifts… |
Show me the numbers. It just doesn't.
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amother
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Tue, Nov 19 2024, 9:08 am
| mfb wrote: | Yes it costs close to $100,000 if you include vort, clothing for everyone, furniture, kitchen and other things to set up apartment….
Shaitel for kallah. All the gifts… |
Sure it can if you need to buy top of the line everything and don't set any limits. Nobody NEEDS a 2-3 bedroom apt for 2 ppl, full line of furniture, new car, and on and on... if you buy all that stuff it's your choice it's not necessary
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amother
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Tue, Nov 19 2024, 9:09 am
I’m chassidish so maybe that’s the difference.
Gifts were between 15-20,000
Wedding night was about 30,000 so 15 each side
Furniture 10-15,000 each side
Then you have aufruf/Sheva brachos
Clothing for whole family
Clothing for chosson/kallah
Kitchen/housewares setup
Chosson/kallah teacher
Shadchan money
Everything adds up so quickly
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amother
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Tue, Nov 19 2024, 9:13 am
| amother Sapphire wrote: | | Sure it can if you need to buy top of the line everything and don't set any limits. Nobody NEEDS a 2-3 bedroom apt for 2 ppl, full line of furniture, new car, and on and on... if you buy all that stuff it's your choice it's not necessary |
Sorry no car, one bedroom tiny basement apartment. (We put furniture money into account), and pretty average spending on linen, household things. No $1,000 linen sets but yes decent pots cuz those will last forever ( also not the $600 sets more like the $200 ones)
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amother
Midnight
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Tue, Nov 19 2024, 9:13 am
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The expenses you listed are not all necessary.... Furniture package and new car is not necessary. It's because the standards are so high. If you don't give into them at a younger age, you don't need to give into them now. Its not having what everyone else has but like other posters said " not everyone has it "... And half of Lakewood is living in basement apartments." It's insane that people are doing this when they can't afford it. We are making ourselves sick willingly, because we have to keep up. It has to stop....... There is nothing wrong with a older car and new beds , with some Ikea furniture or second hand. We did it and we're fine.
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amother
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Tue, Nov 19 2024, 9:13 am
| amother Jade wrote: | I’m chassidish so maybe that’s the difference.
Gifts were between 15-20,000
Wedding night was about 30,000 so 15 each side
Furniture 10-15,000 each side
Then you have aufruf/Sheva brachos
Clothing for whole family
Clothing for chosson/kallah
Kitchen/housewares setup
Chosson/kallah teacher
Shadchan money
Everything adds up so quickly |
Not Chassidish and didnt spend anywhere close. And it doesn't add up so quickly if you budget.
Anyway, this thread is about tuition which Chassidim don't seem to have a problem with.
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amother
Lavender
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Tue, Nov 19 2024, 9:20 am
Im just confused.
My oot family spends even more on chasunas and expenses than we do in Lakewood.
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amother
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Tue, Nov 19 2024, 9:27 am
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Why is buying new furniture the norm? I grew up in a very comfortable house. I did not live in Lakewood but in another Tri-State area. Big community. We did not get furniture. My parents bought us beds and everything else. We got second hand from people who were giving away for the most part. Slowly slowly. We bought furniture as we wanted and as we needed. I have six married siblings. Some of them very recently married and this was the case for all of them. I think nowadays everyone needs high-end and furniture and expensive wigs and all that, but that really shouldn't be the norm.
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amother
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Tue, Nov 19 2024, 9:29 am
| mfb wrote: | Yes it costs close to $100,000 if you include vort, clothing for everyone, furniture, kitchen and other things to set up apartment….
Shaitel for kallah. All the gifts… |
That is not average. Sorry.
And for the person including flying in kids from Israel, that is the most ridiculous thing I've heard. Out of the seven siblings of mine who have married kids only one of them has other kids that live in Israel or out of town that would need to be flown in at a significance expense. That's not a general wedding expense, that's a personal expense.
And it DEFINITELY does not cost (or need to cost 75k for chassan side. ) you are referring to upgraded weddings, not the average standard wedding.
Yes, to the person who made this claim, please go ahead and share that spreadsheet of what you consider average expenses. I have no doubt that it will include things that the average person does not buy at prices that the average person does not spend.
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amother
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Tue, Nov 19 2024, 9:33 am
| amother Lavender wrote: | Im just confused.
My oot family spends even more on chasunas and expenses than we do in Lakewood. |
No way not possible. Imamother people say “Lakewood” whoever that is among the thousands living here, is just worse in every way. Oot does it all better. Don’t believe your lying mind! They know better.
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amother
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Tue, Nov 19 2024, 9:36 am
| amother Jade wrote: | I’m chassidish so maybe that’s the difference.
Gifts were between 15-20,000
Wedding night was about 30,000 so 15 each side
Furniture 10-15,000 each side
Then you have aufruf/Sheva brachos
Clothing for whole family
Clothing for chosson/kallah
Kitchen/housewares setup
Chosson/kallah teacher
Shadchan money
Everything adds up so quickly |
Lol. Maybe this is a surprise to you, but the average person in Lakewood is not chassidish. They also do not spend thirty thousand dollars total on furniture or 20 thousand dollars per side on gifts. And while many people will do an aufruf for immediate family members it is extremely acceptable to do something that is budgeted and not tens of thousands of dollars.
This may be an issue in your community but not the avg Lakewood family. Don't got me wrong, there are plenty of people who overspend but not at this level and not on average.
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amother
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Tue, Nov 19 2024, 9:53 am
| amother SandyBrown wrote: | This is not an "American Parents" issue. This is a Lakewood issue.
You have had cheap tuition for years and built lives expecting it to continue forever. Many of the families there have huge homes (remember the thread where people said they needed couches in their kitchens!? And people who say 5000 square feet is tiny?). Teens and preteens expect name brand coats, backpacks, fancy watches for 8th grade graduation (um my watch is walmart!), sweatshirts that cost more than I ever dream of spending for myself, matching clothing... a certain type of lifestyle.
I know not everyone is rich and spends like this. But when a huge number do, it raises expectations and means less money to spare all around.
Now those of us out of style OOTners who have paid double your tuition- even now with your "raised prices" - are tired of hearing you complain about tuition. We live in smaller homes than any I have seen in Lakewood. I live in an apartment much smaller than the size of my friend's apartment in Lakewood who complained of hers being so small... my kids wear target and children's place brand sweatshirts. Graduation gifts for 8th grade arent expensive jewelry or watches.... just to start. |
What? Why are we talking about Lakewood? Im OP and I live OOT. Tuition for my kids this year is 72k and we make 150k pre tax. We have a reduction and even with that (40k) we feel like we can’t pay for necessities. Every year it increases bc a younger kid is starting school or an older kid is starting high school. Preschool is 10k and it gradually increases, 9th grade is 20k. It’s insane and there’s so solution.
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