Buying food from out vs buying challah

↑ ShishKabob

Sat, Oct 19 2024, 10:06 pm

Raizle wrote:

It upsets me when people are told it's a mitzvah to do things that may be physically hard or draining on them without providing a source.

"I'm sure there are lots of sources" is not a source.

I cook myself for financial reasons but it causes me physical pain. So yes it triggers me. I know I'm not the only one who has a hard time with being in the kitchen

If you would get sources would it make your pain easier to bear? I can try to get some for you tomorrow bli neder.
Do you really need sources?

↑ Raizle ↓

Sat, Oct 19 2024, 10:19 pm

ShishKabob wrote:

If you would get sources would it make your pain easier to bear? I can try to get some for you tomorrow bli neder.
Do you really need sources?

If you tell me that it's a mitzvah then yes I want the source.

Any time you tell someone it's mitzvah to do something or its "better" to do it this way, (the harder way) then you need to know for a fact that it is so.

You don't have to go around providing sources for everything but if people haven't heard it and are questioning it then if you stand your ground be prepared to back it up.

As far as I'm aware the mitzva is to have 3 seudahs on Shabbos.
Show me a source that says it's more of a mitzva to make that food yourself.

I know there is a concept of beautifying adding to a mitzvah such as saving the best cut of meat for Shabbos. I do not believe this is the same thing.

↑ Ema of 5

Sat, Oct 19 2024, 10:47 pm

Raizle wrote:

Also, before you give me sources about preparing for Shabbos keep in mind preparing doesn't mean cooking versus buying. Getting ready for Shabbos can take on many forms

Correct. One can buy food and say “this is l’kavod shabbos” as well as they can cook and say “this is l’kavod shabbos.” It’s not the cooking vs. the buying which makes it special, but rather that you designate it special for shabbos.

heidi

Sat, Oct 19 2024, 11:07 pm

Raizle wrote:

She's wrong.
She has missed the forest for the trees.
There is a mitzvah to "take" challah.
There is a mitzvah is to eat certain foods on Shabbos and yomtov and there is also a mitzvah to enjoy Shabbos.
For some the last one means buying the food/ paying someone else to bake.

I've heard of places that even sell dough so you can do the mitzva without the hassle.

There is no mitzva to make the food yourself as opposed to buying it. There is no mitzvah to give yourself extra work if you have another option.

I actually find your rebbetzins attitude irksome. For some people buying food makes the difference between having the energy to host guests or not. If that's what you had to do to host then it would be better to buy then make.
Hachnosos orchim is also a mitzvah.

She seems to have missed the point, or is tied up in old fashioned ideas.
She's imposing her own ideology.

This this this!!!!
Shouldn't shiurim be about the importance of the yamin noraim? Maybe beur tefillah so people really understand the davening? Maybe minhag vs. halacha? I'm sure there are many more relevant shiur topics than you have a mitzvah (not!) to make your own food for chag and certainly not you have a mitzvah (only if you make challah do you have the mitzvah) to take challah.
How about focusing on the importance of the different chagim.
The beauty of Hashem's relationship with us
If you can enjoy chag by buying every single thing and thus have time to focus on your children, on your davening, on enjoying chag הרי זה משובח!!

amother

Coral

Sat, Oct 19 2024, 11:56 pm

Remember that sometimes what seems to be a mitzvah is not a mitzvah. Especially when there are contradictory factors.

Davening with a minyan is a mitzvah! Unless... your wife needs your help at home during that time.

Learning Torah is a mitzvah! Unless... there is another mitzvah you are supposed to be doing then.

Taking challah or personally being involved in cooking may also be a mitzvah... unless it will detract from another big mitzvah, like that of being a good wife, mother, and serving Hashem with joy.

Whenever there is a mitzvah that will come at the cost of another mitzvah, ask a Rav. But it is highly unlikely that any Rav will say that that baking challah or cooking personally for Shabbos (instead of buying) overrides other mitzvos.

(I bake my own challah nearly every week, with no mixer, so I'm not saying this out of laziness.)

amother

Lime

Sun, Oct 20 2024, 12:15 am

Baking challah is one of only 3 mitzvos exclusive to women so I would say it’s more special to bake challah than cook food (if you can only do one). Personally, my kids like store-bought challah better, but I’d love the opportunity to take challah regularly, and use the time to daven.

So yea, challah sounds like the more logical choice if you have to choose between the two.

amother

Firebrick ↓

Sun, Oct 20 2024, 12:16 am

amother Dustypink wrote:

I make my own challah but almost never make enough to be mafrish challah. It’s unfortunate but just too overwhelming for me to always make such a huge amount at once. I make my own challah still because I much prefer the taste than to store bought. I don’t worry about it

One of my teachers told me she asked a big Rav if it's better to bake every week without a Brocha or every other week with a Brocha and he told her baking every week without a Brocha.
I also bake smaller amounts as it's much easier for me and separate without a Brocha. It's still a Mitzvah and you can still daven.

amother

Nemesia ↓

Sun, Oct 20 2024, 12:34 am

Baking challa is NOT a mitzva.
Taking challa from a dough you are making is a mitzva.
It's very beautiful to deliberately make dough so that you can do that mitzva but it is not a mitzva in itself.

Look, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Bottom line, I think everyone will agree that coming into Shabbos calm will take precedence. Putting pressure on people is never going to go somewhere positive.

I wonder what these Rebbetzins would say if you asked them what's more important - baking challa/making food or cleaning your house? or ironing your husband's shirts? Maybe you should leave the house a mess so you can cook? Maybe people shouldn't have clean clothing so you can bake challa?

amother

Red

Sun, Oct 20 2024, 1:01 am

Maybe she She should focus on the fact that a man has a mitzvah To work and then maybe his wife would have more time to cook more food. These things upset me so much! If the woman is having a hard week and can go in with the family and she can get everything taken out and I think that’s amazing. If I have to cut corners and buy something, but there’s no yelling on Friday I like candles peacefully then whatever I spent is definitely for the mitzvah if shabbos.

amother

Molasses

Sun, Oct 20 2024, 1:36 am

So many things wrong.
My husband bakes challah and cooks for shabbos. He enjoys it and it works out that it is easier for him schedule wise than rearranging schedules so I can do it. (I work out of the home, he works remotely).
While it was a woman's mitzvah, it was because women baked. Men didn't back then because they worked the fields etc.
Just like if there was no woman in the home (hospital, niftar, single man, divorced etc), the man needs to stay home and light the Shabbos candles. It is the FAMILY'S mitzvah but women ideally do it if possible/reasonable. Same as if no man the woman has to do other things.

Now what really irks me is that rebetzins seem to like to push all these extra things as "requirements" that are really just in the "nice to do" category. It is not a mitzvah to cook chicken soup for Shabbos. You need to have food but either way: whatever food you have and however you get it- that is the important thing. Yes, there is an "inyan" but it is NOT HALACHA.
I can use leftover matzah from Pesach. It is not required to have braided fresh challah each week.

Do these rebetzins have day jobs? At least where I live the ones that give these sorts of classes they DONT. They also have cleaners come to scrub their toilet. Maybe they give a shiur a week. (And no it doesn't take all week to prepare because these sorts of classes often seem to be more fluffier parts of Yiddishkeit than actual substance with sources.)
Until you work 40 hours a week out of the home in a stressful job--and don't have daily help around the home--don't add extra things to my plate that are now "required".

PinkFridge ↓

Sun, Oct 20 2024, 6:07 am

I know so many women who didn't make challah till their kids were older.
I do bake challah. It's a lot cheaper but the reason I make it is because I find it so meaningful and bH my family really likes them.
I enjoy cooking and baking. Ditto.
I do all this because I CAN at this point in my life.

There's a cute children's song: When Mommy makes/does x for Shabbos Kodesh/ she always sings this tune/L'kavod Shabbos Shabbos Kodesh/ Shabbos is coming soon.

Guess what's a legit stanza?
When Mommy buys challos for Shabbos Kodesh...
When Mommy buys yummy prepared foods for Shabbos...

Hold the thoughts that if circumstances allow you to calmly and happily do x, you might start doing it. Meanwhile, keep on producing beautiful Shabbosos and yomim tovim, and happy associations and memories, with simchah, gratitude, excitement, and NO guilt.

amother

↑ Valerian

Sun, Oct 20 2024, 6:23 am

Raizle wrote:

מצווה בו יותר מבשלוחו
That's the source you're adding about.
That being said, there a time and place for everything and I cannot understand how a blanket statement can be made about signing like this. So so strange.

amother

↑ Firebrick

Sun, Oct 20 2024, 7:25 am

amother Nemesia wrote:

Baking challa is NOT a mitzva.
Taking challa from a dough you are making is a mitzva.
It's very beautiful to deliberately make dough so that you can do that mitzva but it is not a mitzva in itself.

Baking Challah is absolutely a Mitzvah even if you aren't making a Brocha , its just min Hatorah to make a Brocha if you use a certain amount of flour. And remember you are separating Challa if you use 8 cups of flour without a Brocha.

https://www.yeshiva.co/midrash/28450

Indeed, it is a very important mitzvah for a woman to bake bread for Shabbos, rather than purchase it from a bakery (Bi’ur Halacha, Orach Chayim 242 s.v. vehu), and it is an even bigger mitzvah to bake enough to separate challah with a bracha (Rama, Orach Chayim 242)

Honestly all preparation for Shabbos is a great Mitzvah!!

In general people need to be really careful about learning anything from this site, there's a ridiculous amount of misinformation here and people who quote things without any source.

amother

Moccasin ↓

Sun, Oct 20 2024, 7:33 am

Making food for Shabbos is not a bigger mitzvah than any other household chores. The mitzvah is to have special food for Shabbos not to cook it. I find that cooking food at home is sometimes healthier so I prefer to make it at home but for Shabbos I sometimes buy extra prepared food. Making challah with Hafrasha is a mitzvah. I often see it with people giving shiurim that the person who gives the shiur make up stuff

amother

↑ Nemesia ↓

Sun, Oct 20 2024, 7:37 am

amother Firebrick wrote:

I followed your quote and looked up the original אורח חיים which says it is a MINHAG as a zecher to the mon.
It is not a mitzva.

Talk about misinformation.........

zaq

Sun, Oct 20 2024, 10:28 am

The mitzvah is not to MAKE challah but to TAKE challah if you happen to bake. There is no comparable mitzvah applicable to cooking, though I suppose you could cook extra to give to the needy. Neither making challah nor cooking for Shabbos is a specific mitzvah. The mitzvah is to do **something** to prepare for Shabbos. That can be as simple as polishing your leichter or your shoes if your domestic staff does everything else. If your cheshbon is "I can do only one or the other and I want to do a mitzvah" then bake enough to take challah with a bracha. If your cheshbon is "I can do only one or the other and I can cook better than I can bake," then cook everything and buy challah. If you have more money than ability or time, buy both. If you have more ability and time than money, cook and bake everything.