Raising your kids in a diverse community

↑ Chayalle

Yesterday at 9:48 am

amother Olive wrote:

I think you have to know your children.

My oldest attends a technically RW MO all girls high school, but some of the families are definitely more LW. She has some lovely friends who don't dress according to school standards outside of school and she's come across some kashrus issues at one friend's house. We've encouraged her to develop a relationship with our shul Rabbi or one of the rebbeim in school so she can ask sheilas herself as they come up. It's a good lesson to learn early in life. We also know that our daughter is deeply committed to Judaism. She is meticulous about davening every day and enjoys learning Torah for its own sake, not just for a test. We have never had any issues with her dressing b'tznius (standard elbows, knees, and collarbone covered and nothing too tight) even if her friends are wearing short sleeves and pants. DD has always been an independent person and a deep thinker who does what she knows is the right thing rather than the easiest. She has never been one to do things because other people are doing them.

However, at this point we don't think we would send our next daughter to the same high school. We have a few years until we get to that point, but our second daughter is definitely more of a conformist who notices what the popular girls wear or do and wants to fit in. We think she would do better at a slightly more sheltered type of high school where she wouldn't have as much temptation.

Chanoch L'Naar Al Pi Darko.

This is a great example of that.

amother

↑ Navyblue ↓

Yesterday at 9:50 am

amother Lightyellow wrote:

I think the advantage to a more diverse community is avoiding the disadvantage of a more uniform community. Diverse communities are less judgmental, less keeping up with the Jones's... You don't need to feel like you must stay inside a very narrow box to be a good Jew. I think diverse communities better prepare you for the realities of the outside world and teach true ahavas Yisroel. Every community with have its positives and negatives. The downside is that you may be exposed to different things....there is no perfect place. You need to decide what works best for you.

I don’t think this true at all. I know people in diverse communities that were not accepted and were judged terribly for being “too frum”. It’s really not the utopia everyone pretends it is.

essie14

Yesterday at 9:52 am

We prefer to raise our children in a diverse community and send to diverse schools.
My DD is in a co-ed elementary school. The parents run the gamut, including non shomer shabbat.
We have family members that are not shomer shabbat/don't cover hair/don't wear kippah so she's already exposed to that and she knows that everyone observes Judaism differently.

mha3484

Yesterday at 10:22 am

I have my kids in a more mixed but still yeshivish school. It has its good and less good parts but as my oldest is into the teenage years I think its been an overall positive experience. I find their class makes the biggest difference. I have one kid who until this year had a very mixed class from very modern to a kid he was convinced never went to the grocery store. Another has a class where everyone is very like minded and its a pleasure. I have other kids between that spectrum. So I have experienced it all.

It has not been easy for my oldest. We have had many challenging conversations but I think its made him stronger and us better parents. He has developed great values. I feel like my job as a parent is to give over what I believe to my kids and its not supposed to be easy.

mommy9

Yesterday at 11:53 am

Chayalle wrote:

The principal of my DD's very in-town school told someone very close to me that she personally grew up OOT with alot of exposure, etc....and she feels that it creates greater resilience in terms of one's frumkeit. You raise your kids to know who they are and what their standards should be in the world. It has benefits that an in-the-box community doesn't have. Yes there are benefits to living in-town but make no mistake, your community BY school has benefits as well. Just make sure you are the address to discuss any questions your kids may have, keep communication open and healthy.

Wishing you much Hatzlacha.

I agree with this 100%.I didn't choose to send my children to an oot day school but this is where we ended up and I think my kids are stronger because of it. They have pride in who they are. One of my daughters told me when we sent her "in town"for the last 2 years of high school that she's her own person and not subject to peer pressure.

amother

Feverfew

Yesterday at 1:16 pm

I grew up and currently live in a community like this.

I loved it. It helped me accept all walks of jewish life and use labels much less. It has it's risks but it has it's bonuses. I had a classmate from a modern home that moved more to the rightand has a more yeshivish home now. But on the flip side I had a classmate from a regular frum home who went off the derech (but I guess that can happen in a more homogenous community too). Bottom line a parent does need to be more on top of things in a mixed community/school. In the younger grades when you have more control whose house your kids play in, you need to sometimes turn down playdates if you don't think the home is the right influence. Or invite them to your house instead.

amother

↑ Calendula ↓

Yesterday at 1:26 pm

amother Feverfew wrote:

But on the flip side I had a classmate from a regular frum home who went off the derech (but I guess that can happen in a more homogenous community too).

In my mixed community, the OTD or semi-OTD kids from RW homes that I know of, I don't think it had anything to do with their handful of MO classmates. One very common thread is learning difficulties, especially for boys but also for girls.

nylon ↓

Yesterday at 2:41 pm

For us, because we're not such "in a box" people, it's important to have some diversity. I think being in a restrictive community only works if you fit in. If you don't it can be miserable. So there is that to consider too. For many of us, the possibility of different influences -- and remember, this means they can be influenced both ways, it's not all negative -- is outweighed by the benefits. And maybe influence isn't even a negative, for some. It also depends on what kinds of diversity, and what else is tolerated.

amother

Beige ↓

Yesterday at 3:38 pm

Having spent a few childhood summers as the only observant Jewish child and usually the only Jewish child, period, in an inner-city public-school summer day camp, I wouldn't want my children to grow up that way. It is a very tough and less than pleasant position to be in, even if the other kids are friendly. You feel like a tiny island in the middle of the Pacific. That said, there is value to learning how to interact with people of different backgrounds and with the outside world in general while retaining your own principles and way of life. I understand why people want to live in a totally insular environment -- it's simply easier and less challenging. But it's also restrictive and stultifying, and risks making you narrow-minded and intolerant. Furthermore, not everyone is cut out for that kind of existence, and the backlash can be severe when such a person discovers that there is a whole other world out there.

Ema of 5

Yesterday at 3:48 pm

amother OP wrote:

I’m asking based on a conversation I had. I am raising my kids in a diverse community. My kids are in a community school and are exposed to all types of people. I value diversity because my husband is a unique guy and he found space in a place that’s not judgemental. On the flip side, my kids are much more educated about the world and know kids that do things that we won’t allow. There’s definitely an over exposure that bothers me sometimes but I hope I give my kids the skills to make the right choices. The woman I was talking to had a massive argument with me why would I not want my kids to be only with likeminded people. She absolutely couldn’t understand why I would choose to raise my kids in a place that I know for a fact will expose them much more. I tried explaining to her that these are personality differences. Some people that don’t fit the Mold feel like failures in such a setting but thrive in a place that values what they have to offer even though they don't fit exactly into the in town box. Now obviously this argument is going to be divided between the two styles of parenting but I want to know how many people out there appreciate diversity and how many would rather raise their kids in an environment that has very limited exposure to other types of people. Am I crazy for thinking this way? Am I missing something?

That’s an easy one for me. I want my kids to see and experience diversity, because Jews come in all shapes, sizes, and colors. I want them to understand and accept and respect that our way is not the way for everyone, and that’s ok. I want them to respect those different people, and their differences. I wouldn’t want to raise my kids in a “one size fits all” neighborhood or school, because even within our own family (meaning just my kids) we have lots of differences.

↑ nylon

Yesterday at 4:10 pm

I don't think anyone is saying "diverse" to mean being the only frum Jew. That's not really diversity, either.

What they mean is different kinds of Jews, or at least different kinds of frum Jews (and they might mean non-Jews too, but that's not a given). Not a community where everyone is rigidly divided up by type, or only has one type. This can be tricky, to be honest, because nowadays Lakewood for example has a certain amount of diversity (it's no longer just based around the yeshiva) but there's a significant degree of self segregation within it, certainly in the schools.

On the other hand, Baltimore has a large frum population but it is mixed. If you go to BY or TA, everyone will be frum (just about) but they won't all be the same exact type. Some neighborhoods will lean more to this or that -- more modern, more yeshivish. But you can't live in Baltimore and not interact with different kinds of people.

amother

Cyan

Yesterday at 4:12 pm

My husband and I lived in a diverse community, but it didn’t work out. Over the years, the tone of the community shifted. Everyone moved to the right and excluded those of us on the left-end spectrum of Orthodoxy. Eventually, us LWMO families dwindled down to small numbers as people left or moved to the right. My family also moved. The schools introduced new rules that my family would not abide by and would separate the classes based on the family’s frumkeit level.

If you live in a truly diverse community, I think that is wonderful. But I think many people even have a limit as to how diverse they’d want their community.

amother

Darkblue

Today at 7:03 am

As someone who raises kids in a diverse environment out of necessity and not out of choice, I really think it sounds more attractive on paper than in reality.

Let me tell you what it entails: „giving your child the right tools“ means you have to be hands on more and you cannot rely on the environment to shape your kids and take some of your job. You also need to compensate for things your child may be deprived of.

It also places more responsibility and pressure on your child to deal with inner conflict and navigate unforeseen situations.

↑ shabbatiscoming ↓

Today at 8:02 am

amother Latte wrote:

To sum it up so far - it comes down to parenting. Know what your kids need and be a hands on parent.

Personally - I think a heavily non-diverse environment doesn't provide critical lifeskills for our children. Similarly, a heavily diverse environment can be detrimental in different ways. A healthy mix, where you have some level of diversity and conformity is not enforced, is the best environment. Parents can actually parent in such an environment, and have options for various kids needs.

Such as?