S/o Do you consider finances before ttc?

amother

↑ Daylily

Thu, Oct 10 2024, 1:39 pm

amother Silver wrote:

This part I disagree with. While I can understand using finances as a reason, tuition should not be. It is an obligation on the community to provide Torah schooling for the children. Practically it falls on the parents, but they have a right to take communal funds for that.

Honestly, I would be happy if my Tomchei Shabbos donations are helping someone be able to afford a child but usually that's not enough to make that type of difference.

But practically speaking how does this work? I already get a tuition break and it's still a huge struggle. I can't afford even another reduced tuition

amother

Papayawhip

Thu, Oct 10 2024, 1:55 pm

ora_43 wrote:

This.

I think the question of BC for finances alone is mostly theoretical for most people. If finances are bad, I'm working more hours and cutting back on things like cleaning help. And then it's not just finances, it's inability to care for more kids, lack of energy, etc.

Was abt to say something along these lines

Tight finances usually leads to emotional and mental stress which I think shld be a factor
A mothers mental health is extremely important

As for myself , personally I do havta think before bec my ob is out of pocket and need to make sure I could cover the expense

amother

Azalea

Thu, Oct 10 2024, 1:55 pm

amother Tangerine wrote:

I do because I need money for ivf to have them.
If everyone would have to pay some expenses upfront there would be lots less kids.
Honestly I would say everyone “deserves “ a family of a bout 5 kids and the community should support that. But double digits with no money is reckless. the kids and the parents will for sure be affected emotionally and mentally. And if they don’t care not to pay tuition get tzedaka it’s selfish to strain the system like that.

why this number? How did you come to choose the number 5?

amother

Floralwhite

Thu, Oct 10 2024, 2:01 pm

Finances would be a factor for me in two ways:
1. If I'm so overwhelmed by financial stress that I can't be available for my kids
2. If I can't afford the immediate expense of having a baby (like the copay to see the OB, for example)

Not because in a few years they'll be another tuition bill

Mimisimi

Thu, Oct 10 2024, 10:57 pm

With every child comes more bracha!!
I've seen it many times.
Not always was it so significant, but Hashem has sent us extra $$ in various ways when I was pregnant/ postpartum.

And money comes and money goes. My children are eternity. Their neshamos and future generations are forever!!

amother

Mustard

Thu, Oct 10 2024, 11:03 pm

amother Snapdragon wrote:

No I don't plan.
I don't believe that school fees are a good reason not to have more children.

The fact that you call it 'school fees' tells us that you are in England. In America they call it 'tuition'.Having lived in England and America, I just want to tell you that from my many experiences with different schools in both countries, the school fees/tuition are way way higher in America.
In America I have come across many more women who work full time, which is much rarer in England, and just not expected. In America I have come across many women who say that 'tuition is the best form of birth control' because they are scared to have to pay tuition for many kids because its such a killer! NOBODY ever said that to me in England. When I was living in england, school fees was nowhere near as stressful as it is in America.

Bottom line, I dont thnk you get to say an opinion in this argument, I dont think you can relate to the american tuition system, and I think its just different. it is so so stressful in america...

edited to add... I 'liked ' your post. I agree with you, that its no reason to not have more children. I have BH many children and struggle majorly to pay my tuition, but still I agree with you...

amother

Vermilion

Thu, Oct 10 2024, 11:10 pm

Reality here .. have 4 kids youngest will be 3 soon. Would love to have less than a 4 year break but when I bring up the idea of TTC to dh (who’s extremely machshiv Daas Torah) he says it just too stressful of a time right now. And by stress he means financial stress. He spoke to our fam rav who agreed and said reevaluate in 6 mo- 1 year

amother

Leaf

Thu, Oct 10 2024, 11:51 pm

To an extent, yes, but not extremely. Like if I am not making it month to month and am feeling financially stressed, then I don't think it would be a good time to try for a baby. But I'm not going to worry about how I'm going to marry off this baby. If I'm pretty sure we can get through the first couple of years, we'll figure out the rest as it comes. So much can change in a few years, maybe school choice benefits will come through, maybe ridiculous wedding standards will finally crash, maybe moshiach will be here long before then.

Tbh when I had my current baby I really thought I had it all figured out (the short term part for sure, and no reason to expect the long term not to work) but then we had a series of setbacks (I posted a different thread about it you might remember. And no I did not figure out how to pay for the repairs in that one so it's just going to wait another couple of months and we'll see whether we've saved up or if another crisis or three intervened by then.

So planning will only take you so far. But I do think that if financial stress is severe it's not a good place to bring more sensitive young people into.

amother

↑ Silver ↓

Fri, Oct 11 2024, 12:22 am

amother Daylily wrote:

But practically speaking how does this work? I already get a tuition break and it's still a huge struggle. I can't afford even another reduced tuition

I understand this. I meant if someone can afford the reduced tuition but can't afford full. People above were arguing that if you can't afford full tuition you don't have a right which I think is ridiculous. You don't have to feel guilty about taking a reduction. You can't force him to give you a bigger reduction than they want to, that's a practical matter, not a theoretical/ ethical one.

I hope Hashem gives you a year of Bracha and increased parnassah in ways you might find hard to imagine right now.

amother

↑ Silver

Fri, Oct 11 2024, 12:23 am

amother Babyblue wrote:

In Halacha, if a man was poor he wasn’t allowed to marry or had to give a divorce. Halacha didn’t say that Hashem will provide

Which Halacha are you referring to? I am not aware of this one.
There is no Halacha that a man who can't afford to feed his existing children cannot have relations that will result in more children. That law just doesn't exist.

He can be compelled to take a job and work. But if he's not making enough money to support his children, that doesn't change his right to procreate. Or his mitzvah onah - obligation to be with his wife.

amother

Mint

Fri, Oct 11 2024, 12:37 am

No. When I started having kids we were making $30k a year, now we are making more than 4 times that. We would never have believed that could happen.

When we first sent a child to high school we had no way to imagine we could ever afford it. That $10k sounded exorbitant. But somehow we finished paying it all only a few months after the school year was over. We are now quite a few years and multiple kids into high school.

It's a good thing we didn't put financials into the equation. We can always finish paying off the schools over time but there is no second chance to have a baby.