S/o Do you consider finances before ttc?

amother

Thu, Oct 10 2024, 9:44 am

This is a spinoff to the tuition threads. If you can't afford tuition and can't make ends meet, do you think about it before you decide to have more kids, or do you just keep having more kids and not worry about finances? Do you think people should have as many kids as they desire and not take finances into account? Obviously hashem can change anything but if bderech hateva you can't pay your bills is this a factor for you? No judgment here I'm just wondering what people do.

amother

Seablue

Thu, Oct 10 2024, 9:46 am

No, or I would never have had any children.
Eta if I couldnt afford food or aroof over my head I think that might be different.

amother

Snapdragon

Thu, Oct 10 2024, 9:47 am

No I don't plan.
I don't believe that school fees are a good reason not to have more children.

amother

Steel

Thu, Oct 10 2024, 9:49 am

I would. My husband doesn't believe in it. He says Hashem wants us to have children and decreed a certain amount each person needs to struggle financially regardless of family size.

amother

Lightcoral

Thu, Oct 10 2024, 9:50 am

I have 5 kids and never gave finances a thought. I was taught to not factor that in, and that is how our rav talks. Right now we’re very tight financially and I am also barely holding on physically and emotionally, so idk if we’ll have more. The tight finances impact physical and emotional wellness. If you can’t afford a cleaning lady or prepared food or therapy—well life is just harder. So as I understand it, the byproduct of being poor (if it happens to you) is a reason for a heter, but finances alone are not. Theoretically, if someone was poor and “winning at life” they could go for it.

amother

Bluebonnet

Thu, Oct 10 2024, 9:52 am

amother Poinsettia wrote:

Have to say this
This thought process is anti Torah!!!

Yes and rabbanim will advise you not to consider it as the children are for klal Yisrael and if needed can take tzedaka
But be prepared for tomatoes

ora_43 ↓

Thu, Oct 10 2024, 9:52 am

amother Lightcoral wrote:

The tight finances impact physical and emotional wellness. If you can’t afford a cleaning lady or prepared food or therapy—well life is just harder.

This.

I think the question of BC for finances alone is mostly theoretical for most people. If finances are bad, I'm working more hours and cutting back on things like cleaning help. And then it's not just finances, it's inability to care for more kids, lack of energy, etc.

amother

Nectarine ↓

Thu, Oct 10 2024, 9:52 am

I don’t think people need to have every dollar planned out from the child’s birth to wedding. But I do think that if someone is not able to provide for the needs of their current children they should not continue having more. And this doesn’t only apply to financial needs, also physical, emotional etc.

Edit: and no, not paying full tuition is not considered “not meeting child’s needs”. It would be ridiculous for someone not to have children just because they can’t afford full tuition. Most families don’t pay full once they have multiple children and that’s ok.

amother

Catmint ↓

Thu, Oct 10 2024, 9:59 am

amother Nectarine wrote:

Let's keep this thread to financial, which is VERY different than physical and emotional.

amother

↑ Catmint

Thu, Oct 10 2024, 10:01 am

No, finances are not a consideration. Hashem brings parnasa for each child he brings into the world. One can have 3 kids and be poor or have 8 kids and be poor.
If they literally don't have food to put in babies mouths a rov should be consulted, but that is very rare nowadays, there are resources available.

↑ ora_43

Thu, Oct 10 2024, 10:06 am

Also, it can be hard to really say that people 'bderech teva' won't be able to pay bills in the future. Eg for most people who work it's rare to suddenly get a significant raise, but it's not like it never happens.

Like, I think there are cases where we can fairly safely say finances are a real issue (eg if the family already needs significant tzedaka funds). But I'm guessing it's more common to be in that gray area where it's not clear where the money would come from, but there are a lot of places it could conceivably come from, including some that aren't unlikely.

amother

↑ Nectarine

Thu, Oct 10 2024, 10:07 am

amother Catmint wrote:

Let's keep this thread to financial, which is VERY different than physical and emotional.

Ok, so my original point remains the same. If you can’t provide financially for your current children’s needs don’t have another child.

Sewsew_mom

Thu, Oct 10 2024, 10:10 am

Absolutely not.
Hashem can change finances from one day to the next. How can I make such a huge decision based on something so petty and not important.
Although if I was emotionally unwell contributing to my finances it would be a diff answer.

amother

Blush

Thu, Oct 10 2024, 10:10 am

Man plans god laughs. No I don’t, I might think about job changes and tightening budgets but would never not have a child for that reason.

amother

Chocolate

Thu, Oct 10 2024, 10:13 am

amother Snapdragon wrote:

No I don't plan.
I don't believe that school fees are a good reason not to have more children.

But would you be okay homeschooling? I agree it’s not a reason but if you would be sending them to school regardless and expecting others to cover your cost then I think it’s a pretty good reason

amother

Daylily ↓

Thu, Oct 10 2024, 10:16 am

Yes I do even though it pains me and I wish I didn't have to.

I currently get approx 50% tuition discount and even the amount we pay is a huge struggle.

If I were to have a baby now I would need $800 cash a month for babysitting. I don't have 800 left over at the end of the month now and I can't assume that dh or myself are magically going to get such a large raise. That is not taking into account the extra money for diapers, formula etc.

amother

Tangerine

Thu, Oct 10 2024, 10:17 am

I do because I need money for ivf to have them.
If everyone would have to pay some expenses upfront there would be lots less kids.
Honestly I would say everyone “deserves “ a family of a bout 5 kids and the community should support that. But double digits with no money is reckless. the kids and the parents will for sure be affected emotionally and mentally. And if they don’t care not to pay tuition get tzedaka it’s selfish to strain the system like that.

amother

Silver ↓

Thu, Oct 10 2024, 10:36 am

amother Chocolate wrote:

But would you be okay homeschooling? I agree it’s not a reason but if you would be sending them to school regardless and expecting others to cover your cost then I think it’s a pretty good reason

This part I disagree with. While I can understand using finances as a reason, tuition should not be. It is an obligation on the community to provide Torah schooling for the children. Practically it falls on the parents, but they have a right to take communal funds for that.

Honestly, I would be happy if my Tomchei Shabbos donations are helping someone be able to afford a child but usually that's not enough to make that type of difference.