Solutions to the tuition crisis

amother

Thu, Oct 10 2024, 9:04 am

Ok let’s make a productive thread. What I think is that at a certain point it’s not about wants vs needs or too high community standards or the schools giving swag. While those factors could shave off a bit of the bottom line, it can’t fix the problem. There is a good proportion of our communities that are working as hard as they can and the numbers just don’t add up. You can’t pay 70k in tuition when you make 150.

Here are a few ideas I’ve heard:

1. Each family pays a percentage of their income, capped at around 10-15%, not a set amount. The rest is funded by community gvirim who need to prioritize this over other tzedaka organizations.
2. The whole community pays 1% of income to tuition fund (regardless of if you have kids in school), and tuition is capped at 20% of total income (unless someone wants to give more). The fund supplements whatever break you are given. This was proposed in Baltimore but fell apart because there was pushback from the givirim.
3. There’s a percentage of “cash back” each year given to parents, based on how much tuition you paid the previous year. This pot of money is funded by gvirim in the city. (Baltimore did this. What I don’t like about it is that the biggest cash back goes to the people who don’t need it, since they are paying the most tuition).

Which ideas have you heard? Which do you like? What steps can we take as parents to try to get the ball rolling to a new system?

amother

Seagreen ↓

Thu, Oct 10 2024, 9:08 am

I don’t like the idea of telling wealthy people they must privoritise schools over all other tzedakahs . There are so many worthy causes. Why should he give to this over Bonei Olam, Tomchei Shabbos , Hachnasas kallah, Hatzolah , or a sibling in need? Of course schools are a very worthy cause but if I were very wealthy and I could chose giving $100,000 for my poor brothers down payment or to donate to school I think I’d chose my brother

(Disclaimer , theoretical , I have no brother )

amother

Bellflower ↓

Thu, Oct 10 2024, 9:10 am

Don't agree with paying a percentage of your income. That's socialistic mentally. Why should one be penalized for making more money. You read threads here how ladies stay home and don't work and cry poverty. Why should I lose out and have to pay more because I work?

amother

Eggplant ↓

Thu, Oct 10 2024, 9:16 am

amother Bellflower wrote:

Agree

Also there are so many ways to hide income so people can get away with paying the correct amount and it would penalize those working honestly on a w2

Molly Weasley

Thu, Oct 10 2024, 9:20 am

amother Bellflower wrote:

I don't necessarily agree with op, but Masser is a Jewish thing.

amother

Dimgray

Thu, Oct 10 2024, 9:21 am

amother Bellflower wrote:

I also don't like the idea that someone who has less kids is then paying more per child. There's often reasons why they have less children even if it's just that they are trying to be financially responsible but often it has to do with physical or mental issues... which might require more therapy, ivf treatments... and now they have to explain why they need the money while people with more children automatically get a discount because they have more kids.

amother

Winterberry ↓

Thu, Oct 10 2024, 9:32 am

The gevirim get together, in addition to a massive campaign (similar to the 107 ml) to put together a large principle amount.

Then every person in the community pays a tax towards the fund of 10% of their income. From when they get their first job, all the way through.
The money gets given to each school directly, a certain amount per child.
Plus advocating for vouchers.

It's not so easy. At the beginning, anyone who already finished paying tuition would pay a lot less or nothing because they actually paid tuition already and are now trying to catch up in retirement.

I acknowledge the problem if families change communities/communities start growing very fast.
And the schools will still add "fees".

But this feels fair.
SAHM get assigned a "value" say 50k. Where they'd still have to pay so people can't just be poor and opt out.

deebeevee

Thu, Oct 10 2024, 9:33 am

amother Dimgray wrote:

Very good point

amother

Fuchsia ↓

Thu, Oct 10 2024, 9:34 am

Yeah this is a big no. You cant dictate how the wealthy spend their tzedakah. The system you propose is socialism and all it does is encourage people to work less earn less.
The only idea I have is that those getting tuition breaks where one parent is not working full time needs to provide a service to the yeshiva. For example erev yom kippur when I need to work to pay for those children who get breaks those parents can help by watching my kid. Or the week before pesach etc. those parents not working need to ease the load off the parents working. Or give out the lunch or proctor exams etc so the school doesnt have to hire people to do that

amother

↑ Bellflower ↓

Thu, Oct 10 2024, 9:38 am

This is a crisis that can never be solved for many reasons.
-Some ladies feel like they don't have to work because that is a lack of bitachon. -Everyone prioritizes money different so wheras I work hard and spend minimal so I can pay tuition, others live the high life and then get breaks. How can you track people's spending?
-Everyone has different size families based on personal factors. And nobody should be penalized for having less kids or rewarded for having more
-You can't tell rich people where to give their money.
-Schools always cry poverty no matter how much money they raise.

amother

Cerise

Thu, Oct 10 2024, 9:39 am

amother Fuchsia wrote:

My brothers went to a school that did that....if you couldn't pay full tuition you had to give to the school your time for free
There are a few choices...subbing, making certain hours worth of fundraising calls, being part of the nshei who takes care of the dinner and school events....I don't know if/what other choices were

amother

Watermelon ↓

Thu, Oct 10 2024, 9:49 am

None of these community wide “solutions” will work because the vast majority of us don’t live in communities insular enough to enforce this. That would only work in certain chassiduses or maybe small towns.

At the end of the day, yeshivas will always be reliant on fundraising to survive, even if many parents pay full tuition.

I agree we can’t, and shouldn’t, convince gevirim that they should t be giving money to bonei olam, Hatzala etc. But I do think we can raise awareness that if gevirim (and regular yidden) are trying to support torah, the torah of our children comes first. Meaning, yeshivas and bais Yaakov’s should take priority over most kollels. Only once our yeshivas are funded properly should we be raising hundreds of millions of dollars for kollel. We have to make it chashuv again to support yeshivas, just like it’s so chashuv now to support kollel.

This obviously can’t be forced, it’s a value that would need to slowly be amplified and accepted.

amother

↑ Watermelon ↓

Thu, Oct 10 2024, 9:50 am

amother Cerise wrote:

How does this solve the tuition crisis though?

amother

Amaryllis ↓

Thu, Oct 10 2024, 9:50 am

Nobody like this answer, but the fact is, you DO need the community to support it. It cannot be left on the back of current parents only, the system is cracking from that. The community has to to pay for their schools, and that includes those who do not yet or no longer have kids in school. Yes, yes, nobody likes to be told what to do with their money. But then don't complain when you don't have functioning community institutions anymore because everyone was busy arguing why THEY don't need to pay into it 🤷

mha3484 ↓

Thu, Oct 10 2024, 9:55 am

amother Watermelon wrote:

How does this solve the tuition crisis though?

It doesnt. We have mandatory give or get in my kids school and the women who lead committees have the hardest time finding volunteers during the day because if your not working most likely you are home with small children and cant leave them to go volunteer for free at your kids school. Also there are more families then there are volunteer opportunities. So it ends up making most of us crazy trying to reach our obligation.

amother

↑ Eggplant ↓

Thu, Oct 10 2024, 9:56 am

amother Watermelon wrote:

Agree that maybe it's time to cut back on support for kollelim. And I'm not anti-kollel, my dh learned in kollel for 7 years (not supported).
In times of shefa when people are doing well financially it's beautiful to support kollel
But now that everyone is struggling maybe our priorities are misplaced.
Think of adopt a kollel which is common in so many shuls and communities. Imagine if those funds would be directed to the schools in the community. Or what about the 100 million that was raised this summer for the yungeleit in EY.