Solutions to the tuition crisis

amother

Canary

Thu, Oct 10 2024, 9:59 am

amother Amaryllis wrote:

Nobody like this answer, but the fact is, you DO need the community to support it. It cannot be left on the back of current parents only, the system is cracking from that. The community has to to pay for their schools, and that includes those who do not yet or no longer have kids in school. Yes, yes, nobody likes to be told what to do with their money. But then don't complain when you don't have functioning community institutions anymore because everyone was busy arguing why THEY don't need to pay into it 🤷

This is the truth.

Cry socialism all you want but the idea of capitalism is a western ideal. Torah lifestyle believes in supporting the klal and education of the future of klal Yisrael is a communal responsibility.

Tuition absolutely needs to be a joint effort between the gevirim, parents. And community

amother

Mistyrose ↓

Thu, Oct 10 2024, 10:02 am

amother Amaryllis wrote:

You cant fix a problem by creating another problem. Making people pay a lifetime will just create different problems - such as no money for retirement. What will you do then? Create another community requirement to support the elderly?

And all that will do is encourage people to move out of their community once their children are finished with the school. I can just see 55+ communities taking off at full steam.

You cant fix the school system by looking at it in a vacuum. You need to consider the entire lifestyle that we have set up and get to the core issues creating the societal problems. Some of those core issues are high standard of living, crippling wedding expenses per child, limiting education for men, kollel en masse, etc.

amother

↑ Watermelon ↓

Thu, Oct 10 2024, 10:02 am

amother Eggplant wrote:

Agree that maybe it's time to cut back on support for kollelim. And I'm not anti-kollel, my dh learned in kollel for 7 years (not supported).
In times of shefa when people are doing well financially it's beautiful to support kollel
But now that everyone is struggling maybe our priorities are misplaced.
Think of adopt a kollel which is common in so many shuls and communities. Imagine if those funds would be directed to the schools in the community. Or what about the 100 million that was raised this summer for the yungeleit in EY.

Very well said. I wish there was a way we can express this sentiment without being called anti kollel. There needs to be a community wide shift in the mindset.

amother

Chestnut ↓

Thu, Oct 10 2024, 10:02 am

amother Fuchsia wrote:

Yeah this is a big no. You cant dictate how the wealthy spend their tzedakah. The system you propose is socialism and all it does is encourage people to work less earn less.
The only idea I have is that those getting tuition breaks where one parent is not working full time needs to provide a service to the yeshiva. For example erev yom kippur when I need to work to pay for those children who get breaks those parents can help by watching my kid. Or the week before pesach etc. those parents not working need to ease the load off the parents working. Or give out the lunch or proctor exams etc so the school doesnt have to hire people to do that

Um.. No I do not want to watch anyones bratty kids the week before pesach. Dh has a demanding job he travels for which leaves me to juggle EVERYTHING else by myself. We don't have extra for cleaning help or take out. I do help siblings and neighbos when I have extra time but please don't use me as a solution when my friend who pays full tuition with 2 housekeepers , baby nurse and husband thats always available gets off the hook. Please!

↑ mha3484 ↓

Thu, Oct 10 2024, 10:03 am

I live in Chicago we have the Kehilla Fund that aims to do this, it makes education a community priority. They have over 1500 donors of all ages and life stages and hashkafas donating each month and then they take that money and give to schools from co-ed MO to chassidish but how many of us are willing to give to schools that we would never send to?

amother

↑ NeonGreen ↓

Thu, Oct 10 2024, 10:06 am

amother Chestnut wrote:

Not a good idea for a lot of reason. Who is going to vet the moms/homes where the kids are being babysat?

amother

↑ Winterberry ↓

Thu, Oct 10 2024, 10:14 am

I am also very pro-kollel. Did it for many years, hope that my children will also

I also don't mind supporting kollels IN my community because the law of economics means that money will be circulated. The kollel man gets a raise, pays the playgroup Morah, who pays the plumber, who buys a sandwich at the restaurant, who pays the mashgiach, etc.

However, the amount of kollel funds from America to EY makes me uncomfortable. The 100 million Keren, Adopt-a-kollel, so many others.

I live in a very yeshivish community, we all started in kollel. By 10 years, we all left because we need to pay tuition.
Im uncomfortable with the idea that my husband had to leave kollel to feed his family and then gets harassed by organizations who say that their men absolutely cant leave kollel.

amother

↑ Watermelon ↓

Thu, Oct 10 2024, 10:20 am

amother Winterberry wrote:

Very good distinction.

amother

↑ Watermelon ↓

Thu, Oct 10 2024, 10:21 am

mha3484 wrote:

I agree with winterberry. If everyone stopped donating to my local community kollelim we would have no rebbeim, no moros, no kashrus professionals and many other vital roles these kolleim serve as a spring board for. I also agree with being uncomfortable with the funds to E'Y as well.

But what happens when your local kollel is BMG and they are raising $70 million/year from gevirim across the country just for their kollel checks?

amother

↑ Fuchsia

Thu, Oct 10 2024, 10:24 am

amother Chestnut wrote:

Thats fine if your not asking people like me to cover the cost of your child’s tuition. Yes you should find a way to give back. The schools should require it. And the family you describe is the exception most are struggling 2 parent households like where my husband travels a lot too leaving it all on me plus my full time job.

amother

↑ Winterberry

Thu, Oct 10 2024, 10:26 am

amother Watermelon wrote:

But what happens when your local kollel is BMG and they are raising $70 million/year from gevirim across the country just for their kollel checks?

I will comment that BMG practically also feeds in across the country. I have firsthand knowledge of the community is talking about. Many of their Rebbrim and Rabbis come from BMG, spend 2-4 years in a local kollel and then get the jobs.

Other communities also are feeding from BMG.

But, yes, I do agree that BMG should tone down the collection across the country, the same way that the 100 million Keren made me uncomfortable.

↑ mha3484 ↓

Thu, Oct 10 2024, 10:27 am

I'm not the worlds expert maybe we need to take the community kollel model of paying for those who will take kodesh jobs down the road vs paying for indefinite learning. I believe in learning but maybe it has to lead to something to get the community to fund it vs your wife works to fund it.

Last edited by mha3484 on Thu, Oct 10 2024, 10:29 am; edited 1 time in total

amother

↑ Mistyrose ↓

Thu, Oct 10 2024, 10:28 am

mha3484 wrote:

I think the local kollels need to make a distinction between those who are there to eventually support the klal versus those who don't have such plans.

I was told that the requirement for the community members to support kollel is for support of those people who will eventually support the klal. The ones in kollel without such plans should not have a community obligations towards them.

If kollels would distribute funds accordingly, then I think there will be sufficient funds to support the former group, and to redirect the rest of the funds to support schools and the like.

amother

↑ Watermelon ↓

Thu, Oct 10 2024, 10:30 am

amother Mistyrose wrote:

Very good point which I hadn’t thought of!

amother

↑ Mistyrose ↓

Thu, Oct 10 2024, 10:32 am

mha3484 wrote:

I agree. I believe in learning, but the indefinite learners should figure out a way to do it without community funds.

I also think that the funds being directed to build million dollar shuls should be redirected to schools. Its crazy how we have these lavish and expensive shuls looming on every third street, but we are leaving our kids out in the cold. I think we all agree that Hashem hears our tefillos just fine without all the expensive marble and granite.

amother

↑ Watermelon

Thu, Oct 10 2024, 10:32 am

amother Fuchsia wrote:

I honestly do not think that in most mainstream schools the parents paying full are directly subsidizing the parents getting breaks. It’s the fundraising that’s subsidizing the breaks.

amother

↑ Amaryllis

Thu, Oct 10 2024, 10:44 am

amother Mistyrose wrote:

The point of everyone contributing is that nobody pays that much, so it shouldn't be a tircha on retirement age or young and early in your career. Parents would still have to pay a tuition, but a lower one. The problem is actually very simple: education is expensive. It's more than most parents can afford. And there's only so much schools can cut. Not every community has the kollel problem (MO is not exactly known for kollel en masse, and their tuition crisis is even worse). High standard of living is sort of an issue, but it's still not enough. Actual basic expenses are squeezing a lot of families and salaries aren't keeping up. There simply is not enough of a base to cover the costs when only the parents of current students are paying. It's a matter of priorities. If you want a thriving Jewish community, the children need a Jewish education. It should be a very high communal priority. If it isn't, well, do what you want, but be honest that ensuring the future of our generations doesn't actually matter to you.