Kicking someone out of your seat

amother

OP ↓

Mon, Oct 07 2024, 5:42 am

On Rosh Hashanah I got to shul just in time for the shofer and mussef. My husband and I paid $75 per seat for him and for me which is $150 and is a lot of money for us, especially at a time of a 3 day Yom Tov.
Anyways, I get there and start reading the seat map and I see that a lady probably in her 40s or 50s, maybe sitting in my seat looking very into her davening. I freeze. I myself I am a quieter, shy person and I don’t like confronting people. I was a bit annoyed because I wanted to daven well The seat was the perfect location I had it the first day. I didn’t say anything to the lady because I felt uncomfortable and I felt that it was Rosh Hashanah and I didn’t wanna embarrass her because I wouldn’t like it if someone did that to me.
I told my husband this and he said he understood where I was coming from but I did not do the right thing I should have said something to lady because we paid a lot of money for those seats and that Yom Kippur is coming she might just sit there again. What should I do about Yom Kippur? I want that seat, but I don’t want to make her feel bad or anyone who’s sitting there it’s very uncomfortable for me to kick someone out of my seat.

↑ Raizle

Mon, Oct 07 2024, 5:52 am

Also you could come before yomtov and leave something if yours that you don't mind if it goes missing, cheap reading glasses case or lemon with cloves, at your seat so it's obvious someone is sitting there.

amother

Bluebell

Mon, Oct 07 2024, 5:53 am

I think it depends. If there was another good place to sit, I would not have disturbed her. It’s also a Mitzvah to help facilitate someone else’s prayer. I was once kicked out of a seat in a completely empty Womens section by a woman who was new to our shul. While I had an assigned seat, I tried to sit in the back by the door so I could leave without disturbing others. She wanted her kids to sit there, which were seats she had purchased (but of course they weren’t interested in staying.) We have someone on each side who helps people “find” their places when there is a conflict. I realized she was correct and moved. My mother always made the point not to argue over seats in shul and that it sent to wrong message.

amother

↑ OP

Mon, Oct 07 2024, 5:55 am

Raizle wrote:

I was thinking of maybe leaving a note saying like hey this is my seat. You could sit here until Krias Hatorah when I come… Not sure if that’s a little socially off:)

kangamom

Mon, Oct 07 2024, 6:00 am

100% you need to tell her! People do this all the time. Either they like a specific seat better than their own, or they are too cheap to buy a seat or can't afford one, so they choose a seat and know that when the person comes, they will leave. How will she know if you don't tell her? I would leave a personal item there on erev yom kippur so she sees it and knows someone is coming.

amother

Blonde ↓

Mon, Oct 07 2024, 6:02 am

People know that there are assigned seats at this time of year. Often a woman will come to shul without purchasing a seat and sit down anywhere until the seat owner comes. I’ve had this happen to me. Usually as I would get closer to my chair the woman who was temporarily sitting in my seat would look up and question if it’s my seat and quickly move. Everyone knows that’s how it works on rosh hashana and Yom Kippur.
She was probably waiting for you to claim your seat.
Another time a woman I knew well was sitting in my seat. As I came closer she smiled and jumped up and moved back to her chair. My seat was a drop closer so she sat there until I came even though she really had a seat.
You did not buy the seat for this woman. You should have approached her. She probably knew that she was sitting in someone else’s seat and was waiting for them to come. Obviously you should be nice about it and speak nicely to her just in case she read the chart wrong and thought she was sitting in her own seat.

amother

↑ Blonde ↓

Mon, Oct 07 2024, 6:05 am

amother OP wrote:

I was thinking of maybe leaving a note saying like hey this is my seat. You could sit here until Krias Hatorah when I come… Not sure if that’s a little socially off:)

No, don’t do that. Just ask your husband to put your machzor in your seat when he goes earlier.

amother

Apricot

Mon, Oct 07 2024, 6:19 am

In the shul where I grew up in nobody ever sat in our seats everyone knew there were extra seats in the back available if you didn't have a seat.

Where I daven now, I don't care where I sit and if someone sits in my seat it's okay I'll sit elsewhere I just want to be able to daven with kavannah the seat doesn't really matter.

I do feel that you could have said something in a nice way if you needed your seat if not just make do.

also, I second putting something on the chair before yom tov so people know where you sit and that it's taken.

amother

Foxglove

Mon, Oct 07 2024, 6:25 am

It's very common for people to sit in someone's seat until they come, usually it's someone they know so that they know to move.
Definitely a normal and not embarrassing thing to let them know it's your seat.
My shul did a number chart so when I saw someone in my seat I pretended I was recounting the rows as if maybe I wasn't sure, as soon as she saw she asked if it was my seat. Really wasn't awkward.

amother

Skyblue

Mon, Oct 07 2024, 6:25 am

If someone is in your seat, then that means you now have to sit in a seat that isn't yours, and it could be that person needs their seat location to be what it is for whatever reason. Obviously don't interrupt someone in the middle of Shmona esrei, but otherwise yes, you need to claim your seat.

Elfrida ↓

Mon, Oct 07 2024, 6:37 am

My shul works on the assumption that anyone who has paid for a seat is going to use it. It is written very clearly next to seating plan that no one may sit in a seat which does not have their name on it, and the owner if the seat has the right to request someone else leave their seat at any point in the davening, and signed by the Rav.

In some ways it's rigid, but it saves a lot of misunderstanding and hurt feelings. And who wants to cause hurt feelings on Rosh HaShana?

Last year the seat next to me on Yom Kippur was empty the entire day, and no one asked to sit in it. She came for five minutes at the end of Ne'ilah - and her seat was waiting for her.

amother

Whitewash

Mon, Oct 07 2024, 7:09 am

I agree that saying this is my seat, with a smile, is perfectly acceptable.

That being said, this reminds me of the time I went to hear zachor. I was newly pregnant and feeling awful. I went early to be sure I got a seat because I really didn't think I could stand. I went, found a seat. Just before zachor started, and lady came in and told me I'm sitting it her seat, please move. So I moved, and I stood. And felt awful - physically and emotionally.

So yes, there's that too.

Maybe say hi, this is my seat. If you're just here for shofar I'm happy to share but after I really need my seat back.

And I agree about leaving something at your seat to show that you're "there".

amother

Mint

Mon, Oct 07 2024, 7:25 am

Having once been humiliated at a bar mitzvah by an irate woman yelling indignantly "young lady, you are sitting in MY SEAT!" I would never treat anyone this way. At most I might, if there was room on either side, apologetically indicate that this was my spot and ask the person to make room for me.

amother

Rose

Mon, Oct 07 2024, 7:29 am

I sat in someone's seat. When she came, she smiled and said that's my seat. I stood up, moved, and thanked her. Most of the seats were purchased but no one was sitting there except for shofar.

I would be mortified to think that someone was too embarrassed to ask me to move. It would probably make me think twice about going to shul at all if I thought that my presence was causing someone pain.

amother

Goldenrod ↓

Mon, Oct 07 2024, 7:30 am

Sometimes, people misread the seating chart and sit in the wrong row. I agree to leave something like a sweater there by Kol Nidrei and overnight- best way. The woman, whether she sat there by mistake or planned to stay until the seat owner came, would likely feel horrible that she ended up taking your seat.