Someone is "stealing" desserts (or, help my son

amother

Quince ↓

Wed, Sep 25 2024, 11:59 am

amother OP wrote:

I feel like I'm part of a different world.

Forget about whether all foods should be available to kids at all times. Setting that aside, if you have an area of your house that you don't want your kids going into, for whatever reason, and you TELL them so, you would really expect them to go in anyway? So much so that you'd have to lock it up? And then people are saying that their kids would actually break the lock, rather than listen to you?

I don't know. My kids are not angels. (Hey, I wrote this post, didn't I?) But honesty and respect are things that are really important to us. If someone says not to touch something, you don't touch it. If you really want to, you sit down and talk to them about it, explain your reasoning, fine. But you don't just ignore them and do it anyway.

That would be true whether it was a parent or a friend or a sibling or whatever. My kids have their stashes of candy that they got from simchas torah, or shalach manos, or prizes in school, or whatever. It's not locked up. It's easily accessible, but none of them would just go and eat stuff that didn't belong to them.

Is putting boundaries like that down for kids really that strange? Is it just because this is food that is for the family eventually? Or because he might not know that it's for yom tov? Would your responses be the same if it was about things that "belonged" to someone else?

Trying to understand why the responses on this thread seem to think I'm crazy or overbearing, when I think I'm pretty reasonable. (Doesn't mean I don't have to change the way I've been doing things now...I admit that. Just trying to understand this very different mindset. Is it just a matter of having a different outlook on food? Or also of having different expectations of how kids should act/are capable of acting?)

The way you are reacting makes it seem like there is more of a power struggle versus boundaries.. when my teen helped himself to specialty treats from my freezer… I was truly happy for him that he enjoyed it.

zigi

Wed, Sep 25 2024, 12:32 pm

mommyhood wrote:

Get your boys into baking! I don't have an open freezer and I would be very upset if my kids took what I clearly made for YT but I do allow my kids to bake on random nights and have the treats they make mid week. Not every day and not every week but baked goods are not 100% restricted to shabbos. They start with duncan heinz and some don't have any interest in progressing past that but some really enjoy the challenge and eating what they made themselves.

We do this, they can make a cake if they want to. Or make a recipe from the cook book if they are feeling more adventurous. I am the one that wins up doing the dishes but hey it's food/ cake that I didn't make

amother

Copper

Wed, Sep 25 2024, 12:56 pm

I have very strict rules when it comes to food that is meant for shabbos/yt. I work hard to make shabbos and yt special with delicious food, I don't appreciate it being eaten before we even get there and then having to do all that work again. I am very clear about labeling things as FOR SHABBOS/YT and everyone knows if you see that you don't touch it. Bh that seems to be enough. If that was being ignored, I'd put up a lock just for a week or two before yt (not worth it for shabbos, I think) t0 get the point across.

amother

Heather

Thu, Sep 26 2024, 12:04 am

Hey OP, just to give you more food for thought (groan, sorry, LOL, didn't realize how that sounded in this context until after I typed it Very Happy

) - The rule in our house is food is fair game for all unless it has been labeled as belonging to someone or I have declared to one and all that xyz is for Shabbos/Yom Tov/etc and is therefore off limits.

So - in practical terms - nosh is available for people to take, though we do leave more healthy stuff available and at one point only bought certain things before Shabbos and made it clear those snacky things were for Shabbos (mind you, leftover treats from Shabbos were fair game during the week, within reason).

But lets say we have mac and cheese on a night when one of the kids is out at a school/friend thing and is having dinner there, and that kid loves mac and cheese - that kid can put a bowl of it aside (or ask one of us to do it) and it literally gets put away with that kid's name on it (as in, not for everyone else to take). Same thing with some shaloch manos - if a kid's friend gave a treat that needs to be refrigerated (someone once got a small chocolate milk), it gets labeled as theirs and stuck in the fridge for only them to take.

Shabbos/chagim are more complicated - due to budgeting concerns, we will often pick up things piecemeal over multiple days/weeks so as to not have it all hit on one paycheck. The point being, my crew is used to the idea that foods may be declared "off limits" because they are needed for something down the road.

What I'm saying is, if your objection is to the Shabbos/Yom Tov stuff getting eaten ahead of schedule, can you just label those things as "off limits" and let the kids know they are off limits, but maybe leave other snacks in the freezer for people to take as they'd like?

amother

Petunia ↓

Thu, Sep 26 2024, 1:13 am

Make it clear to the family that you noticed the freezer was raided and that the freezer is not to be touched - it is only for you or DH to decide when something comes out of it. Reiterate that there is no eating in the basement.

Watch to see if the freezer is raided again. If it is put a lock on it.

Don't make it personal just set clear boundaries and tell everyone that you expect they will be kept. And if they can't do it alone then you help them in the form of a physical lock.

Note: Don't add the metal for the lock yourself, get a refrigerator tech to do it, so that you don't accidentally pierce an important part.

amother

↑ Petunia ↓

Thu, Sep 26 2024, 1:19 am

amother Quince wrote:

I'm so glad that you have time and energy to expend on making special foods to be noshed at midnight, without worrying about how you'll manage to prepare another batch before shabbas/yt. And that you are able to fargen the one child even though it means you'll either have to make more last minute and have a crazy erev shabbas/yt, or just have a shabbas/yt that doesn't have any special treats because there wasn't time to make another batch. (No, truly, I'm happy you have that energy. IYH one day by me too.)
I hope the other kids who didn't get to have any of the specialty treat don't feel resentful.

amother

Mulberry ↓

Thu, Sep 26 2024, 2:25 am

Finding some responses so interesting.

Locks on freezers are terrible chinuch unless they are to keep out a toddler.

At the same time, allowing full range including made for yom yov is without boundaries which teach good character. Respect of mothers time is important.

My mother used to joke about "the mouse" too, the one who raided the frosting or topping off the top of the cakes on shabbos/yt.

How would I handle a suspicious cookie pirate?

Probably announce to all children simultaneously, I see someone was hungry & took a few cookies from the basement. Its close to yt and I don't want to be short on the yt desserts for you on yt.

If anyone would like to bake extra I will help you gather ingredients and you can make an extra recipe to keep up here, its very simple to do but I am short on time for yt prep.

No shame, very practical. Explaining the why while saying it in a way that its no big deal but explains thoughtful behavior. Offering solution.

amother

↑ Petunia ↓

Thu, Sep 26 2024, 2:39 am

amother Mulberry wrote:

Um finding some responses so interesting.

Locks on freezers are terrible chinuch unless they are to keep out a toddler.

At the same time, allowing full range including made for yom yov is without boundaries which teach good character. Respect of mothers time is important.

My mother used to joke about "the mouse" too, the one who raided the frosting or topping off the top of the cakes on shabbos/yt.

How would I handle a suspicious cookie pirate?

Probably announce to all children simultaneously, I see someone was hungry & took a few cookies from the basement. Its close to yt and I don't want to be short on the yt desserts for you on yt.

If anyone would like to bake extra I will help you gather ingredients and you can make an extra recipe to keep up here, its very simple to do but I am short on time for yt prep.

No shame, very practical. Explaining the why while saying it in a way that its no big deal but explains thoughtful behavior. Offering solution.

Hun it's a basement freezer, not a regular freezer. Literally storage. We're not talking about the freezer in your kitchen, for which you'd have a point.

Also. You're nice and judgy. FTR lots of parents of ND kids have this issue and not always is "good chinuch" going to be so simple, sometimes a lock is the best choice for a particular family and child.

Does your husband have filtered internet, btw? Why can't he just control himself the way you're suggesting little cookie thieves control their hands when they're up at midnight? Your DH is an adult, after all. He should have some self-control instead of expecting someone to lock the internet up for him.

amother

↑ Petunia ↓

Thu, Sep 26 2024, 2:49 am

amother Mulberry wrote:

She never said any of the children are ND. Obviously that is different just like if its one of her toddlers it would be different.

I understand that ND is more challenging all around and take tons more to raise. But a secretive/communicates less kid doesn't mean ND to me. Plenty NT are wired that way.

Yeah fine, I'm just saying don't be judgy judgy that if someone does x then that's bad chinuch and you can't believe how someone would suggest such an awful thing.

And FTR I haven't heard of NT kids doing this past about age six or maybe seven. In elementary or middle school kids know better, if they are NT and not from disturbed families then they are pretty decent at not doing this sort of thing. But I know LOTS of ND kids from various amazing families who do exactly this and good chinuch just doesn't help. So when someone says this is what's happening a red light flashes in my head and I wonder what other information we don't know that might shed light on this.

Why would anyone share that their child is ND for no reason?

ND/NT aside though why do you expect better self-control from a child awake at midnight than from a grown adult? And why is a lock not okay for kids but yes okay for grown adults? A lock on a storage freezer really is the equivalent of internet filters. Just different area of life and different age group. Some people need help controlling themselves. Ever read Anne of Green Gables? She locked her book in the cellar, gave the key to Matthew, and told him not to give it back until she'd done her homework.

amother

↑ Mulberry

Thu, Sep 26 2024, 3:07 am

amother Petunia wrote:

Yeah fine, I'm just saying don't be judgy judgy that if someone does x then that's bad chinuch and you can't believe how someone would suggest such an awful thing. Like, seriously, grow up.

And FTR I haven't heard of NT kids doing this past about age six or maybe seven. In elementary or middle school kids know better, if they are NT and not from disturbed families then they are pretty decent at not doing this sort of thing. But I know LOTS of ND kids from various amazing families who do exactly this and good chinuch just doesn't help. So when someone says this is what's happening a red light flashes in my head and I wonder what other information we don't know that might shed light on this.

Why would anyone share that their child is ND for no reason?

ND/NT aside though why do you expect better self-control from a child awake at midnight than from a grown adult? And why is a lock not okay for kids but yes okay for grown adults? A lock on a storage freezer really is the equivalent of internet filters. Just different area of life and different age group. Some people need help controlling themselves. Ever read Anne of Green Gables? She locked her book in the cellar, gave the key to Matthew, and told him not to give it back until she'd done her homework.

I'm really sorry that what I said made you feel hurt. My response is only directed at a NT situation. I hope you understand that and I am sincere in that if OP said ND I would not have the same opinion.

Plenty NT or from well adjusted not a disaster homes have sweet tooth & would sneak some baked goods.

"Who stole a cookie from the cookie jar?" was written way before ND was so common.

Short of eating disorders or terrible diseases there is an ability to control food better than an adult males taavah for procreation. If a child was pulled so strongly at midnight to a stocked freezer I would wonder if it isn't a reaction to too strict healthy food rules in the house for that child.

Anyway, my opinion is just one opinion. It is fine if you don't agree with me at all. It was directed at what OP has shared about her children in her household.

amother

↑ Petunia ↓

Thu, Sep 26 2024, 3:14 am

amother Mulberry wrote:

You didn't make me feel anything, all I feel is tired. LOL

But I wanted to put it out there because I don't think the issue is discussed enough and I'm old enough to get crankier when I see mom judgment happening due to ignorance.

ND has always, always been common, throughout the ages, we just didn't diagnose it and didn't offer help. We expected them to toe the line and whoever couldn't, well....

Internet filters aren't to control adult desire for procreation, there's no procreation to be had on the internet, just self-centered taivot disconnected from reality. Maybe you meant for adultery, that would be taava for procreation...

I agreed with your assumption about strict food rules until about two years ago. Apparently some kids lack certain salts/ minerals/ whatever and that leads them to binge on certain foods (like the kid eating sugar straight, or salt straight) even if they grow up in a BoPo "division of responsibility" type eating household. I don't think we fully understand the biology of this issue but what I have learned is not to judge because it's not smart to judge what you don't know about. Smile

Shana tova

amother

↑ Quince

Thu, Sep 26 2024, 3:37 am

amother Petunia wrote:

You didn't make me feel anything, all I feel is tired. LOL

Shana tova

That explains your ultra sarcastic response to my post…

amother

↑ Petunia

Thu, Sep 26 2024, 3:49 am

amother Quince wrote:

That explains your ultra sarcastic response to my post…

No I'm really happy for you that you have so much extra time and energy that you don't mind.
Personally I never end up making special stuff for shabbas/yt because I'm disorganized LOL

but if I went to the trouble to plan ahead and freeze and bake ahead and freeze oh boy would I be annoyed and upset if it was all for nothing and I had to redo the cooking (or make peace with not having) just before shabbas/yt because it was suddenly missing.

Just thinking about being in OP's shoes makes me want to kvetch-roar.

amother

Jean

Thu, Sep 26 2024, 4:54 am

First of all you are so normal.
No idea why you are getting such weird responses.
If I had time and energy to make a full dessert stash in the basement freezer I would be mad if it kept on getting raided.
I had a similiar situation. I have an ADHD 7 year old that sounds similiar emotionaly to your teen. During one of my pregnancies I was very into sour mike n ikes and they helped me keep the nausea at bay during the first and second trimester. I live in Israel so they are a specialty item. Dh kept on buying me boxes and they were always finished before I was able to enjoy them. No matter where I kept them I would find the empty boxes under my child's bed.
I tried humor- 'Hey guys, can we allow Mommy to finish this box', I tried hiding them, I tried giving my child some as a treat, but anything I did helped for a few days and then she went back to eating them all up.
The situation is now in the past but I never cracked the code and solved it properly. But if I were in your shoes I would probably try all of the above- announcement to family, putting a few aside for general consumption and then I would put a lock on the freezer and call it a day. I highly doubt my child would break into a lock. That is not the kind of kid she is.
In general anything that can be solved without conflict is actually easier on everybody

amother

↑ Banana

Thu, Sep 26 2024, 6:08 am

amother Petunia wrote:

You didn't make me feel anything, all I feel is tired. LOL

Shana tova

Agree with this and sometimes a parents "restrictiveness" around food is a somewhat subconscious reaction to the child's lack of self control around it, not the other way around. In other words the parent thinks the child "just" has a sweet tooth and sets up extra rules and boundaries, yet the child keeps on sneaking. Other parents blame the boundaries when in reality the cravings came first. And then the mother is left wondering why she feels like she inhabits a different universe when other mothers barely have any rules around helping oneself to food in a house. They might not need to because their kids naturally regulate themselves. OP hinted at this in her first post when she said she's not sure if the kid she suspects has a STOP button when it comes to treats.

amother

↑ Sand

Thu, Sep 26 2024, 7:32 am

amother Petunia wrote:

No my husband has no filter and bh doesn't need one. My teen does need a filter while he is learning to navigate this, world. We help him and guide him . Tried total filter lock down doesn't work. Education works a lot better. And same is with my snack cabinet and freezer lock down won't help it will just indices the yesterday hara more