“Dont live beyond your means”- what if that’s not possible

amother

↑ OP ↓

Mon, Sep 30 2024, 11:31 am

amother Khaki wrote:

I totally get you, OP. I promise, I've been there. Poverty is exhausting.

What really freed us was looking at our life, our expenses, and making choices for us that made sense, and ignoring the community expectations and restrictions that made necessities out of things that we actually could live without.

We save thousands of dollars a year by not having cleaning help. We save thousands by making very simple simchos. We save thousands by not wearing Jewish clothes. We bought a house no one wanted because it was weirdly laid out and small and in pretty bad shape for really cheap, and have saved thousands doing many of the repairs ourselves by watching u tube videos and getting supplies from architectural salvage yards. Yom tov is not a financial burden because we choose not to make it one. We just put up our succah, which was free, made from scrap wood leftovers from a neighbors construction project a few years ago. We have company that keeps coming back because our meals are fun and we love our guests, even if all were serving is omelettes and waffles and salad. No one seems to care, because we don't care.

Our kids are happy because we're happy. Even our teens. They're popular and gorgeous and smart. They sometimes wish they had the cool stuff some of their friends have, but they also love our family life. We have so much fun together. We're confident that we can give them a good life without the material clutter that's become so 'essential' to everyone's 'mental health'. And it's working!

I don't mean to condescend. Really truly. But I hear so much pain in your posts. The financial squeeze is real and really hard. But there is usually wiggle room if your willing to think outside the box.

Where do you buy teen girls clothing that’s not “Jewish clothing”

amother

↑ Springgreen ↓

Mon, Sep 30 2024, 12:31 pm

amother OP wrote:

Right for sure. Just can’t take out a Gmach loan for every small purchase and generally you need a co-signer which we don’t have.

So we thought about this piece of qualifying for assistance. But that means I can’t work (if just DH worked we’d qualify), but then we are stuck in this loop forever.

You could stop working full time and do just enough to stay in the work force ( 10 hours a week) just for the period that you have tuitions. Even $4,500 adds up when you have a bunch of kids, but when you are done with that you can go back to full time.

Also this would free up other money like daycare, babysitters, taking off ( so you can access the university dental care) you can shop around sales, ordering and returning teen clothing from Shein, Temu, and Ali, learn how to sew and do your own alterations, make products from scratch to cut down food costs, all things that are really hard to do while working full time.

Another idea would be to work in the school and ask that the salary be applied for tuition.
This way you don't have take home pay, can qualify for benefits, and still stay in the workforce.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Mon, Sep 30 2024, 12:36 pm

amother Springgreen wrote:

I’m not sure if you read all my posts. Firstly, I only work part time. And I said I live in a state with vouchers so tuition is a very small amount.
And why would it make sense to work less and then go to the dental college? Over the years I’d make way more than I’m saving.

I didn’t say I was looking for ideas but if you’re giving them- I can work in the school, but I would make about half of what I’m making now (my job is not something they have in a school). And we wouldn’t qualify for benefits because DH salary alone is $100 under for snap. So if I work we are way way over.

I already order clothing from Ali- it’s not cheap.
What makes you think I don’t buy from SHEIN?
And no I would not “sew” and make products from scratch. Not because I’m lazy, because that’s not my skill set.

amother

↑ Saddlebrown

Mon, Sep 30 2024, 2:23 pm

amother Leaf wrote:

Due to numerous allergies and other health issues, the special food I make cost a lot more. It’s actually one of my biggest expenses. I can take a taxi round trip $100 to the closest Walmart or target (no car or public transport easily accessible) and that is more than the weekly savings from shopping local.

Will the Walmart deliver to you? Walmart+ is $100 a year ($50 if you are on benefits) and has unlimited free home delivery. I get most of my groceries from there. Some groceries are also available for shipping (free over a certain minimum even without the subscription).

amother

Pumpkin

Mon, Sep 30 2024, 2:35 pm

amother Cappuccino wrote:

It's tough.
For us it means not to eat the food others see as necessities. I served pasta with a choice of ketchup or olive oil for Shabbos lunch yesterday. That was it.
Today's lunch was oatmeal porridge.
Cheap meals like that. (Not always, but often enough.)
Only frozen vegetables, not fresh. That's what not living beyond our means means to us.
We dilute the kiddush wine (rav says that's okay)
We don't buy clothes but over the years we've found people who are happy to hand down theirs so it's not a stress for us anymore.
And many more things.

This is sad. Please reach out to your Rav and tell him this. Kids need proper food to eat. Is there tomchei Shabbos where you live? I have no money but always buy food for my kids even if it’s on the credit card. That’s not negotiable. May Hashem send you parnassah in abundance.

amother

↑ Rose ↓

Mon, Sep 30 2024, 4:12 pm

amother Leaf wrote:

Not always is there wiggle room.
I’ve been going to a Gemach to get my kids clothes but they don’t have sweaters or suits. My toddler Ds is wearing short sleeves and no sweater as it’s cold and my cc is maxed. The last bit was spent on my bochur for a suit that he’s now wearing Shabbos and weekday to his yeshiva gedolah. His old one ripped and is beyond repair. He shouldn’t have a suit jacket that he needs to daven in? He’s a very hard to find size so the one company that makes his size may cost more but it’s an unavoidable expense.

Due to numerous allergies and other health issues, the special food I make cost a lot more. It’s actually one of my biggest expenses. I can take a taxi round trip $100 to the closest Walmart or target (no car or public transport easily accessible) and that is more than the weekly savings from shopping local.

We are in a tight spot too. Does Walmart + deliver to your address? A relative has a subscription and gave me the password. I use my own CC but it still saves me so much money on stuff I need. No minimum for shipping and delivery is free with $35. I save a lot on flour, vegetables. oil, sugar... many of their brand products are kosher.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Mon, Sep 30 2024, 5:03 pm

amother Rose wrote:

If anyone in your family has Medicaid (or snap you can it half price membership). My kids have Medicaid so I pay $50 a year

amother

↑ Leaf ↓

Mon, Sep 30 2024, 5:33 pm

amother Saddlebrown wrote:

I tried to order school supplies and many items won’t ship to my area. There is no Walmart in my city.
Many of the products I buy because of allergies are only made by frum companies.

amother

↑ Rose

Mon, Sep 30 2024, 6:02 pm

amother OP wrote:

If anyone in your family has Medicaid (or snap you can it half price membership). My kids have Medicaid so I pay $50 a year

Good to know. But if I have free access through a relative (very close, we trust each other to not use the wrong CC on the account) I will use it. So they get the emails showing I bought flour and oil. I don't have to spend the $50... this has been a huge lifesaver. Saves me time so I can work more, saves me money on actual groceries, and no impulsive purchases.

MommyPhD

Mon, Sep 30 2024, 10:02 pm

amother Leaf wrote:

Can I send your toddler a sweater? I'm heartbroken thinking about him being cold.

↑ frumommy

Tue, Oct 01 2024, 5:10 am

MommyPhD wrote:

Can I send your toddler a sweater? I'm heartbroken thinking about him being cold.

It's a toddler girl, and I asked the same thing and have yet to receive a response.
I can't think about that and go into Rosh HaShana with a clear mind.
I also can't think about "cappuccino" eating Pasta with ketchup for a Shabbos or YT seuda! Crying

Hashem Y'rachem.
"Leaf" and "Cappuccino"- please be in touc!!! Send a private message and I/We will help!
I know it's a drop in the bucket, but we can help a little where we can and you would be doing me/us a FAVOR (I PROMISE, FOR REAL) in these Yomim Noraim/aseres y'mei teshuvah and perhaps tipping the scales on our behalf.

amother

↑ Khaki

Tue, Oct 01 2024, 5:35 am

amother OP wrote:

Where do you buy teen girls clothing that’s not “Jewish clothing”

I've had lots of luck on good old Amazon.

I've found in thrift stores (There are some truly excellent ones where I live in Lakewood).

I gotten bags of hand-me-downs when they're 'advertised' on our community give-away chat. Not everything works, but often a bag of hand-me-downs yields a few good pieces. And it's really fun to give the pretty stuff that doesn't work for us to my sisters and neighbors. We've created quite a good network of thrifty fashionistas who are always on the lookout for good stuff for each others kids

I plan carefully for the future. So I'm always on the lookout for my kids next sizes in clothes and shoes. This Chag season I haven't needed to buy anything other than one pair of Shabbos shoes for one kid (found at a thrift store-22$). Everything else came out of our clothing buckets.

I bought a sewing machine almost 10 years ago, second hand for about 50$. I do all of our own alterations (thank you, utube tutorial videos! ☺️) which is a huge money saver.

amother

Cornsilk

Tue, Oct 01 2024, 5:59 am

amother OP wrote:

Just needing to put food on the credit card. I buy clothes for my kids within reason (always shop end of season sales), car repair, huge dental bill, all beyond our means and all going on the credit card etc.
Now our debt has ballooned just trying to keep up with life. And yes we are actively working to try to increase our income but everything flops or doesn’t pan out.
Are we living above our means? Should we live on bread and water and walk everywhere because we can’t pay our car repair?
If not what does this expression mean for the struggling middle class?

Most struggling frum “middle class” that I see ARE DEFINITELY living beyond their means. This includes (and this is just my observation , don’t come at me ) buying multiple new outfits per season- you don’t need so many (you can get 2 -3 per person on sale, or buy second hand- and do laundry more frequently) , living in large beautiful houses (because you need the space - sorry no you don’t) and claiming any work that was done/purchases was necessary (no you don’t need the new sofa , table , cabinets, etc), cleaning help (this is almost non existent in middle class America but frum yidden think it’s a must for some reason- no, you, your husband and older children can split it up and do it), buying expensive groceries (the freezer section is filled with ready made type of foods that have become a staple in many homes but are very expensive and unnecessary) . Those are the biggest things I’ve noticed but they’ll complain but then don’t want to actually hear what they can cut down on.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Tue, Oct 01 2024, 6:17 am

amother Khaki wrote:

Ok, I don’t have those options.
Amazon is very hit or miss, my daughter is tall so it’s hard. I don’t live in Lakewood so I don’t have access to thrift shops with tznius clothing and I get hand me downs on rare occasions (at that age girls often hold on their clothes longer).
I have a sewing machine. I am not very good at it though despite having lessons, so I won’t hem anything that needs to look perfect lol

amother

↑ OP ↓

Tue, Oct 01 2024, 6:21 am

amother Cornsilk wrote:

Ok so I don’t do any of those things except cleaning help. I have 2 hours a week on Friday. 2 hours. I wish help was cheaper, but I can’t do it on my own and work.
So yes maybe I can cut that out and have more stress about cleaning my house.
But really that’s it, so please don’t judge.
I live in a small house.
I can’t remember the last time I got a new piece of furniture. The only home repairs on my bucket list are the roof (which has tiles missing, B”H not leaking), mold and waterproofing the basement, and some cement that’s cracking around the front of my house. I haven’t done any of those and can’t see when I ever will.

Go on judging me. Go on.

amother

↑ Springgreen ↓

Tue, Oct 01 2024, 6:24 am

amother OP wrote:

For myself I do a lot of poshmark, Thredup an local second hand stores but I did teach myself how to sew using youtube during covid, and I do my own alterations.

I have even taken clothing of mine that was worn or torn, but had enough nice fabric left to make adorable rompers and dresses, but its definitly a skill that I had to work on.

Its that and a combo of Temu, Shein, and Ali and stores like marshalls, tjmax, ross when on sale

amother

↑ Springgreen ↓

Tue, Oct 01 2024, 6:31 am

BTW - you seem to think people are judging you.

No one is, you seem to be in the "poor middle class" bracket that so many people are in these days.

Many of us are or have been there ourselves.

You asked about society in general making the statement “Dont live beyond your means” and many of the people are explaining what they see around them or mistakes they have made themselves that have forced them into debt when real necessities came up

We are not Christain who believe there is something inherently immoral in cc debt. The problem is that it ends up being a bottomless pit, and the interest rates swallow you alive.

I remember growing up and watching my mother try cc after cc and have them all declined in the gas station and having to ask someone to pay for gas so she could take us home.

Thats why I think that cc need to be avoided at all costs, and other forms of debt tend to be more manageable ( the interest rates and compound interest is what makes it balloon out of control).

But obviously, basic needs are basic needs.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Tue, Oct 01 2024, 6:32 am

amother Springgreen wrote:

I find shopping Jewish sales Cheaper and more likely to work out than poshmark/ thredup. I actually find them overpriced. Sometimes saving money isn’t saving.
But even to shop for myself end of season sales I don’t have money for.

amother

↑ Springgreen ↓

Tue, Oct 01 2024, 6:43 am

amother OP wrote:

I usually do poshmark or threadup for shoes and coats more then clothing, but I'll use them to buy something like (NWT) jean shirts that I make into denim rompers or dresses.

I agree that jewish stuff on sale for shabbos or weekday basics tend to be better.

If I don't find the shoes or coat there, I move to marshalls ect. and if I cant find there I usually order from ali.

Because I sew often I can make things work that don't work for other people