“Dont live beyond your means”- what if that’s not possible

amother

↑ Olive

Sun, Sep 29 2024, 2:34 pm

amother OP wrote:

We live in one of those places. Have jobs but don’t make a lot, hence the premise of my post lol.
But the difference in housing is still huge. So for example there DH would make 75k, here he makes 50k. But there a house would be 800k (if lucky) here it’s 300k (that’s on the higher end for when I bought). So the house difference saves more than more salary would

But only because you make little enough for vouchers.

Let's say you and DH would make 200k in Lakewood and there 150k. You're not eligible for vouchers so you're paying tuition PLUS more on kosher food and kosher living PLUS possibly sending teenagers OOT for yeshiva.
So yeah you get a cheaper house but cost of living is not necessarily better.

amother

↑ Beige ↓

Sun, Sep 29 2024, 2:43 pm

GLUE wrote:

Are there jobs there?
Many places that are more affordable are that way because jobs pay less and it is not easy to find one.

I live in one of those places. my husband works remotely as do other people I know. if you work on a computer many jobs can have you work remotely. his job isn't in NY/NJ area so yes it is less then he would earn if he lived in one of those places but he says we still come out ahead financially. personally it's not the main reason we moved here though.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Sun, Sep 29 2024, 2:47 pm

amother Olive wrote:

Vouchers are state wide. If you make under a certain amount you don’t pay the rest if you make over that amount you pay $4500 per child.

amother

↑ Beige ↓

Sun, Sep 29 2024, 3:12 pm

amother OP wrote:

Vouchers are state wide. If you make under a certain amount you don’t pay the rest if you make over that amount you pay $4500 per child.

different places work differently. as someone above said it also depends if you were grandfathered in.

the truth is that people often end up coming and then leaving because we don't have the resources like frum special needs school.... that places like NY/NJ has. I see that being more of an issue that jobs usually.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Sun, Sep 29 2024, 3:16 pm

Here’s a question for the naysayers:
My daughter needed a new uniform, I couldn’t get hand me downs because it was their first year with it.
Had to buy shirts and sweaters. The minimum I could get away with spending was $200.

That went on the credit card.

I needed a root canal, $1200 on the credit card, no choice. Now I need a crown. $800, if I wait longer the repair is going to be a lot more. It needs the crown now. Should I not put it on the credit card? (And yes fwiw there is a dental school but it requires multiple appointments and that would mean missing a lot of work)

amother

↑ OP ↓

Sun, Sep 29 2024, 3:17 pm

amother Beige wrote:

I’m pretty sure the agudah changed it to be statewide.
And yes people leave for special needs. Wish we had more options for it

amother

↑ Springgreen ↓

Mon, Sep 30 2024, 2:33 am

amother OP wrote:

When you don't have a choice you don't have a choice. In general, it makes more sense to take a gmach loan or a helloc, because cc interest rates just kill you once you finish interest free stage.

Also, I don't know Ohio, but sometimes it makes sense to take a pay cut and then qualify for government assistance.

amother

↑ Khaki ↓

Mon, Sep 30 2024, 2:58 am

amother OP wrote:

So again, for me, these expenses would be a no-brainer. They're essential, and must be paid for.

What I would be asking myself is how to not be in this tough spot for the next essential cost.

Here are some of the choices we make (still- even though we're no longer really poor) so that when we need the money, we have it:

-keep the kids home in the summer (no day camp). We had a marvelous time.
-Lots of Yom tov meals coming up. Half our meals will be festive, but dirt-cheap. These unconventional seudos are some of our kids favorites, teens included. Frittata and waffles with homemade ice cream for one meal, another is a big veggie bean soup and my yummy homemade sourdough. Chilli with all the fixings for one meal.
-Chol Hamoed will be hiking and camping with family. Total expense for the 3 days is 45$ for our campsite for 3 nights + regular food expenses. Board game tournament, biking in a park, beaches, free tickets though the library are all good, free options.
-bar mitzvah coming up. Like our last one, this will be celebrated with a homemade Kiddush in our house. Cost about 4,000$ all together, including hats, suits, tefilin, and gorgeous kiddush.

For us, this is what living within our means looks like.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Mon, Sep 30 2024, 3:00 am

amother Springgreen wrote:

Right for sure. Just can’t take out a Gmach loan for every small purchase and generally you need a co-signer which we don’t have.

So we thought about this piece of qualifying for assistance. But that means I can’t work (if just DH worked we’d qualify), but then we are stuck in this loop forever.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Mon, Sep 30 2024, 3:01 am

amother Khaki wrote:

How do I keep kids home all summer if I work?

amother

↑ Khaki ↓

Mon, Sep 30 2024, 3:24 am

amother OP wrote:

How do I keep kids home all summer if I work?

It could be this particular money saver won't work for you, OP. Each individual example is not really the point. My point is, save in the areas of your life that are flexible, so that when unavoidable expenses come up, you can pay for them. If your willing to be a bit unconventional and a bit uncomfortable, you can live within your means.

Regarding keeping the kids home in the summer, my husband and I moved around our work hours so that each of us worked part of the day while the other ran our 'family camp'. I did lots of evening hours and early morning hours. It was a push, but it worked, and it saved us a small (or not so small!) fortune.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Mon, Sep 30 2024, 3:30 am

amother Khaki wrote:

I guess what I’m trying to say is that, when a person is not in it it’s so easy to look at someone who is and think they’re not doing it right.
But why is there the automatic assumption that because we are in debt we don’t know how to handle money we don’t know all the tricks for saving. Some people are just blessed with less and it’s really really hard.

There are so many people in my community who are constantly moving to bigger houses. I just don’t understand what they’re doing and we are not, except that Hashem blessed them with more money . A few people in my shul who could literally pay off all our debt and they wouldn’t fee a pinch and here we are struggling with every penny.. I’m so tired of it.

amother

↑ Khaki ↓

Mon, Sep 30 2024, 3:55 am

amother OP wrote:

I totally get you, OP. I promise, I've been there. Poverty is exhausting.

What really freed us was looking at our life, our expenses, and making choices for us that made sense, and ignoring the community expectations and restrictions that made necessities out of things that we actually could live without.

We save thousands of dollars a year by not having cleaning help. We save thousands by making very simple simchos. We save thousands by not wearing Jewish clothes. We bought a house no one wanted because it was weirdly laid out and small and in pretty bad shape for really cheap, and have saved thousands doing many of the repairs ourselves by watching u tube videos and getting supplies from architectural salvage yards. Yom tov is not a financial burden because we choose not to make it one. We just put up our succah, which was free, made from scrap wood leftovers from a neighbors construction project a few years ago. We have company that keeps coming back because our meals are fun and we love our guests, even if all were serving is omelettes and waffles and salad. No one seems to care, because we don't care.

Our kids are happy because we're happy. Even our teens. They're popular and gorgeous and smart. They sometimes wish they had the cool stuff some of their friends have, but they also love our family life. We have so much fun together. We're confident that we can give them a good life without the material clutter that's become so 'essential' to everyone's 'mental health'. And it's working!

I don't mean to condescend. Really truly. But I hear so much pain in your posts. The financial squeeze is real and really hard. But there is usually wiggle room if your willing to think outside the box.

amother

↑ Leaf ↓

Mon, Sep 30 2024, 4:42 am

amother Khaki wrote:

I totally get you, OP. I promise, I've been there. Poverty is exhausting.
…

I don't mean to condescend. Really truly. But I hear so much pain in your posts. The financial squeeze is real and really hard. But there is usually wiggle room if your willing to think outside the box.

Not always is there wiggle room.
I’ve been going to a Gemach to get my kids clothes but they don’t have sweaters or suits. My toddler Ds is wearing short sleeves and no sweater as it’s cold and my cc is maxed. The last bit was spent on my bochur for a suit that he’s now wearing Shabbos and weekday to his yeshiva gedolah. His old one ripped and is beyond repair. He shouldn’t have a suit jacket that he needs to daven in? He’s a very hard to find size so the one company that makes his size may cost more but it’s an unavoidable expense.

Due to numerous allergies and other health issues, the special food I make cost a lot more. It’s actually one of my biggest expenses. I can take a taxi round trip $100 to the closest Walmart or target (no car or public transport easily accessible) and that is more than the weekly savings from shopping local.

frumommy ↓

Mon, Sep 30 2024, 7:45 am

amother Cappuccino wrote:

It's tough.
For us it means not to eat the food others see as necessities. I served pasta with a choice of ketchup or olive oil for Shabbos lunch yesterday. That was it.
Today's lunch was oatmeal porridge.
Cheap meals like that. (Not always, but often enough.)
Only frozen vegetables, not fresh. That's what not living beyond our means means to us.
We dilute the kiddush wine (rav says that's okay)
We don't buy clothes but over the years we've found people who are happy to hand down theirs so it's not a stress for us anymore.
And many more things.

Do you not have a Tomchei Shabbos or another organization near you that could provide you with a more standard Shabbos seuda? Please don't be too proud to sign up if you are.
You can private message me and tell me where you are and I could look into it and sign you up for something if you are embarrassed to do it yourself.
At least for kavod Shabbos/oneg Shabbos l'sheim shamayim.
Hashem should g'bench you with a happy, healthy, and prosperous new year. Heart

↑ frumommy ↓

Mon, Sep 30 2024, 7:50 am

amother Leaf wrote:

Not to the OP, but "leaf": I could guarantee that if people knew, you'd have a pile of sweaters at your door within the day because we are that kind of people. That is devastating to think of a child going cold without proper clothing. Please PM me and we'll see what can be done! Heart

You should be g'bencht with a happy, healthy, and prosperous new year!

amother

Orange

Mon, Sep 30 2024, 8:06 am

Op I totally get you. I’m in the same boat. It’s very nice just to say hand me downs and all I do for most of my kids, especially for the younger ones, even just buying fill in The wardrobe still cost I can’t imagine even buying a full wardrobe. None of my girls had shoes for yom tov I had to buy I didn’t go to a Jewish store it still cost but what should I do . Comparable , I don’t think I spent too much on filling my kids wardrobes for the winter, but it had to be done they can’t not have . I just got a medical bill almost 2000 . My credit cards are high we have been debt free for years and Highly in debt for some. We try our best it’s not easy