“Dont live beyond your means”- what if that’s not possible

amother

↑ Gray

Today at 6:50 am

amother Springgreen wrote:

BTW - you seem to think people are judging you.

No one is, you seem to be in the "poor middle class" bracket that so many people are in these days.

Many of us are or have been there ourselves.

You asked about society in general making the statement “Dont live beyond your means” and many of the people are explaining what they see around them or mistakes they have made themselves that have forced them into debt when real necessities came up

We are not Christain who believe there is something inherently immoral in cc debt. The problem is that it ends up being a bottomless pit, and the interest rates swallow you alive.

I remember growing up and watching my mother try cc after cc and have them all declined in the gas station and having to ask someone to pay for gas so she could take us home.

Thats why I think that cc need to be avoided at all costs, and other forms of debt tend to be more manageable ( the interest rates and compound interest is what makes it balloon out of control).

But obviously, basic needs are basic needs.

Woah, why would you think debt is something only christians have a problem with? There's haclachic issues with debt as well as moral issues with borrowing money (like putting money on your credit card) without paying back.

I'm not judging, but it's definitely not a foreign value.

amother

↑ Springgreen

Today at 6:58 am

amother Gray wrote:

If I understood correctly the halachic issue ( and by definition moral issue) is borrowing without a way or plan to pay back. And the gemaras are full of stories on borrowers and lenders, so it is not like torah or halacha has a Dave Ramsey perspective of no debt, at all, ever, no matter what

From what you said earlier it doesn't sound like that is the case, you usually manage to balance the budget just just, and the unexpected things are throwing you over.

The nature of frum life is that when you have a lot of kids at home things are very expensive, but then they get married, you pay off the mortgage, and you should have more disposable income to tackle debt. In that case, you are just putting it on the cc card for now, and you plan on paying it if you can....

amother

↑ Acacia ↓

Today at 8:48 am

OP, I've been following this thread from the beginning and I totally agree with you, living within your means if you're a frum family with very little money is not possible.

You haven't mentioned if you've reached out for help from tzedakah organizations or even family. When I was in your position a bunch of years ago I actually called a family member crying for help. He told me to give him a breakdown of my budget, so I did. He was the one who showed me that it can't possibly work and I guess he either had the money or fundraised to help me plug the holes.

Putting expenses on credit cards is something we all do (those of us who feel stuck) but really makes no sense. Its insanity. If there's anything else you can do first, even beg people for money, get a gemach loan, anything, please do that first.

The answer isn't always cutting down more and more, sometimes the answer is reaching out your hand for help. Taking tzedakah.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Today at 9:01 am

amother Acacia wrote:

Thank you so much for this validating post. You don’t know what your kind words do for me. Unfortunately we don’t have family we can help. We do get a monthly stipend from a tzedaka organization it’s a small amount but it helps a little. Issue is food and paying back old credit card debt. If we didn’t need to eat and wear clothes we’d be doing a lot better lol.

amother

↑ Acacia

Today at 9:16 am

amother OP wrote:

Well our father in heaven is wealthy, He has billions and billions... wishing us both a good year full of bracha and all the money we need.

amother

↑ Beige

Today at 9:39 am

amother Springgreen wrote:

but then you have weddings (if you pay for that) and what about retirement....