S/o what changed since the 80’s that makes life so expensive

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amother

Stonewash ↓

Thu, Sep 26 2024, 6:17 pm

I guess you weren't around or were just a child in the 80s, when everyone complained about how prices had shot up since the 1960s. Prices are up but so are salaries. The job that paid me about 12K annually in 1981 now pays about 49K. A minimally skilled office worker demands $30 an hour; in 1981 it was maybe $10, max. In 1991 I went to Williamsburg to buy my 5 year old a dress for RH; the cheapest I could find was $50, considerably more than I wanted or could afford to spend.

Electronics and technology get cheaper with time. The first handheld calculators cost around $125 (over $1000 in today's money) back when they first came out in the 1970s, and all they did was the basic arithmetic functions. By the year 2000, calculators five times as powerful were being given away as swag, like keychains and mugs.

Produce also gets cheaper as it's more available. Kiwi, star fruit, avocadoes, Sabra fruit, dragon fruit were all either unknown or very very costly in the 1970s. They're now readily available. Strawberries were a seldom treat; now, in season, they can be had for 1.50 a box. It does depend where you shop. I shop in bodegas in a poor neighborhood, not at OverpricedHifalutinFancyBoutique. And I buy kiwis when they're 2 or 3 for $1, not when they're $1 each.

keym

Thu, Sep 26 2024, 6:19 pm

The pace of life sped up.
Creating a need for so many expensive shortcuts.

In the 80s many of our mothers either didn't work or worked part time.
They had the time.

I and most of my friends who use any of the various things in this list, it's simply because we don't have time because we're working, working, constantly running.
So I buy the bags of checked lettuce rather than spending an hour per head of lettuce soaking and rinsing
I'll buy frum socks and shells and coverups and clothes because I don't have time to run to 5 different stores, I go to one and buy all.
I buy more takeout than my mother because I'm working.

And yes, im aware that it's a cycle. Im working to earn money but then I spend some of it.
But that's life.

Miranda Wright

Thu, Sep 26 2024, 6:23 pm

amother Hydrangea wrote:

What mitzvah is there in saying clothes have to be a certain brand, and only European shoes arw acceptable, and kallahs and chossons must have x and x or should I say $ and $. Even babies need name brand strollers and clothes. And 4 years olds have to be wearing the roght clothes. And chas v shalom you get your kid the wrong backpack, or one from Walmart. Or not serve fleishigs every night.

Lol, do people actually live like this?

teachkids

Thu, Sep 26 2024, 6:42 pm

I buy none of this and still can’t afford life

↑ Fox ↓

Thu, Sep 26 2024, 7:09 pm

Health care has a huge impact. It's true that in the 80s, employers paid for most healthcare plans. The downside was that there wasn't as much health!

Most of us had HMOs in those days, and anything you needed outside the HMO was almost impossible. Things like reproductive endocrinologists and fertility clinics didn't really exist. Hospitals had shared rooms and were bare-bones in terms of comfort and accommodation.

Specialists of almost any kind usually ended up being paid out-of-pocket; the HMOs would simply draw out the approval process so long that you had no choice.

Most people didn't feel 100 percent safe in serious healthcare situations, either. The AIDS crisis had hit by the mid-80s, and it wasn't immediately clear what caused AIDS. A number of people with otherwise no risk factors were infected with HIV by blood transfusions.

Even after we knew the infection paths for HIV, doctors were concerned they didn't know enough. I had a ruptured ovarian cyst in 1987 that caused some internal bleeding. My doctor hospitalized me but did everything possible to avoid a transfusion -- yes, the blood supply was being screened by that time, but everyone was still nervous.

And as for ASD, learning disabilities, etc. -- well, some kids had trouble in school, and some kids were just weird. It wasn't until the 90s that treatment or specialized instruction was commonly available.

amother

Starflower ↓

Thu, Sep 26 2024, 7:15 pm

amother Firebrick wrote:

That’s not the problem.
The problem is that it’s become the norm to buy and do things that are very expensive.
One home isn’t enough anymore. You need to own a summer home too, or a summer rental which cots a fortune.
Mid winter break isn’t a break to relax and take a trip to the museum, you have to fly somewhere far and ski.
Chol Hamo’ed trips have to be at least 500 miles away and involve hotel and airfare. An amusement park isn’t enough.
Every simcha including an upsheren and an important wedding anniversary require the services of a skilled party planner.
Everyone has to drive a late model car.
Everyone married more than ten years has to have an eternity band.
There are no more synthetic wigs that come in a box.
There’s more but I’m getting tired.
None of this is part of our religion.

Idk, we don’t need any of that, we arbt even close to any of that (except my 10 year old human hair wig) and we are not making ends meet at all. So please don’t blame it on this stuff

↑ Fox ↓

Thu, Sep 26 2024, 7:19 pm

amother Stonewash wrote:

This, absolutely!

I worked summers during college as a "Kelly Girl" -- a temporary secretary. Depending on the job, I earned between $5.30 and $7.30 per hour. This was relatively posh as summer jobs went; retail work was paying $4-$5 an hour at the time, and secretaries got to sit down.

My first studio apartment in 1983 was $300 a month, and an unlimited transit pass was $40 a month. My first "real" job paid $18K a year, and if I recall correctly, I took home a little over $500 each semi-monthly pay period.

amother

Burntblack ↓

Thu, Sep 26 2024, 7:29 pm

amother Stonewash wrote:

You wish they paid $10 an hour for a minimally skilled office job!!! I started my first job at $7 an hour in 1990, some were making $6 an hour. Four years later I tried to get a higher paying job - I answered every ad and went to countless interviews. Nobody was willing to pay more than $350 a week to a bright young lady with four years of experience; do the math it's less than $10 an hour. No PTO. No yom tov. Nowadays girls are starting at $20 to $30 an hour, and many are making $40 to $50 an hour.

My parents bought a home in the 1980's. Yes it was only $250k, but they were paying almost 3k a month due to the high interest rates.

amother

Lemonlime

Thu, Sep 26 2024, 8:20 pm

I was told here that contact lenses is a necessity on the same level as sanitary pads.
I grew up in the 80s. What people define as necessities sounds totally ludicrous to me.

mig100

Thu, Sep 26 2024, 8:25 pm

amother Snapdragon wrote:

insurance was often paid for in full by employers without high deductibles...
medical care is better now but there is a price that comes with that

This

↑ GLUE ↓

Thu, Sep 26 2024, 8:25 pm

amother Hydrangea wrote:

But now people won't even move into an apartment without painting it no matrer their income level. Apparently it's unheard of not to get fresh paint before you move in somewhere.

Sorry, I was not clear.
Even in the 1980's people painted their places before they moved in. No matter the income level.
It's after they lived there for years and the place needed a new paint job that they did not get another one.

↑ GLUE

Thu, Sep 26 2024, 8:33 pm

amother Stonewash wrote:

What was the cost of living?
If you got 12k what the cost of rent?utilities?health insurance?other life expenses compered to now?
Does that 12k have the same buying power as 49k now? Does it have less buying power or more?

Giving me numbers like this is meaningless, I would have no idea if you are earning more, less or getting the same.

amother

Bronze

Thu, Sep 26 2024, 8:42 pm

Fox wrote:

My DH once had a rebbe who would tell the boys in a thick Yiddish accent, "You're a hunnert percent right! You're a hunnert percent right! Now let me show you where you're wrong."

Absolutely everything you listed is accurate, but I was a young adult in the 80s, and it wasn't exactly the halcyon era people think it was.

On the plus side, the "malaise" of the Carter administration had ended, and business profits were up significantly. There was definitely a more optimistic attitude in the the U.S. as well as the U.K.

On the minus side, interest rates were crazily high. It was almost impossible to get a home loan from a bank; people with 50 percent down payments were being turned down. And if you were self-employed? Forget it! So many people bought or sold their homes "on contract," meaning that the owner was basically acting as the bank.

Even though business profits had picked up, the high interest rates meant that there was very little credit available for expansion. Which meant that nobody was hiring. Even if you had good qualifications, finding a job was really, really tough.

Something else that people don't think about is the flip side of having so many consumer goods: having fewer consumer goods.

Walmart had not yet begun its expansion, for better or worse, and there were relatively few mail-order companies. You were pretty much stuck with whatever merchants were selling in your community at whatever price they were selling it. Again, that seems quite quaint and charming, buying your shoes at the local shoe store and your toilet tissue at the local grocery or discount store. But that meant that you had very, very little choice in selection, size, style, or anything else. It also meant that unless you were willing and able to go further afield for your shopping, everyone in the neighborhood had already seen, tried on, and knew the cost of your new shoes.

There had always been delivery services from local stores in NY boroughs, but it wasn't a widely-offered service OOT. Which meant you had to have access to a car or make sure you lived close to food stores, etc.

Prices, too, were widely different than what we know now, especially electronics. I remember getting an off-brand "Walkman" to listen to the radio while commuting on public transportation. It also played cassettes! It was $119 -- cheaper than the fancier Sony brand. Anything like that was a major, major purchase. I still marvel at how cheap TVs and similar electronics have become.

So, yes. We now have far higher expectations and our "needs" have expanded with lower costs and greater availability (part of what's making today's inflation so painful). But many of the conveniences and choices that we expect today just didn't exist in the 80s, and the financial picture was not uniformly rosy.

This post just gave me major nostalgia, and I wasn’t even born until the 90’s.

pause ↓

Thu, Sep 26 2024, 9:44 pm

It's simple: The proportion of average salary to average housing price. The gap has been getting wider and wider. The typical American dream of owning a home with a white picket fence is out of reach for the average American. In 1980 the average price in the US was 47,200 while average income was 12,413 . As of May 2024, average price of a home in the US is 440,000 while average salary is 63,795. The percentage of one's salary that goes towards housing is completely through the roof.

Obviously rental prices reflect purchase prices.

Throw in Jewish prices on everything from tuition to food to housing, and you have something totally unsustainable.

amother

Strawberry ↓

Thu, Sep 26 2024, 9:50 pm

amother Brown wrote:

I don’t know which 80’s you grew up in but in my world all women had babies until 45. They were trying to rebuild their lost families. Now people have less kids.

Not all could, there was a lot less fertility treatments and options in general for all women.

miami85

Thu, Sep 26 2024, 9:59 pm

Some of your examples are a bit extreme. Some are from better knowledge about halacha and commitment to certain sensitivities like tznius and bedikas tolaim.

Some are community standards that we can question how necessary they are.

I know plenty of women in the 80s that had babies in their 40s--so that's not really new.

amother

Chambray

Thu, Sep 26 2024, 10:00 pm

amother Firebrick wrote:

I live on a different planet then you.

amother

↑ Strawberry

Thu, Sep 26 2024, 10:05 pm

Wolfsbane wrote:

There has been lifestyle creep, but I don't think it's at the core of the problem. Just look at how expensive housing is. Or health insurance. Food, tuition. You can buy cheaper t-shirts, but that still won't make $16,000+ per kid per year on tuition and health insurance super affordable.

I feel like people use that as an excuse though. Frum lifestyle is expensive anyone so why try to talk about cutting down on the many luxuries that have become required in our lives.

amother

Cantaloupe ↓

Thu, Sep 26 2024, 10:08 pm

When I was a kid 40 years ago. Clothing was so much more.
We live oot and would drive twice a year into Brooklyn and buy these really expensive outfits. Jewish clothing was so expensive.
Ppl dressed so much more polished. You didn’t get away with wearing H&M, Zara, kohls. Fast fashion didn’t even exist.
Clothing was expensive and tailored.
I prob spent double on my clothing back then.

Also I live in lkwd and pay 6-10k tuition per kid. My parents paid 12-20k tuition for us oot for bais Yaakov and cheder 40-30 years ago.

Also salaries have increased so much. I’m an engineer. My first job I made 45k 25 years ago. The starting salary is now 80k on the low end. My dh did management and started at 30k. Now starting is 70k.

And there was no such thing as imported meat. 30 years ago each roast for yom tov was $80. Now I can buy imported roast for $35…

amother

↑ Stonewash

Thu, Sep 26 2024, 11:19 pm

Excuse me, RE and fertility clinics most certainly did exist in the 1980s. Ask me how I know.

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