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Forum
-> Household Management
-> Kosher Kitchen
amother
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 Tue, Sep 24 2024, 5:58 pm
We have a set of drinking glasses we've always used to eat with meat meals, and they've been in the meat dishwasher a bunch of times.
We don't have proper dairy drinking glasses, and have just used coffee mugs for water when we eat dairy.
A friend told us there's no problem to use the "meat" drinking glasses with our dairy meals because nothing hot is going in them.
Is this obviously no problem and I was being needlessly stringent? Is it something to AYLOR?
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amother
Steelblue
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Tue, Sep 24 2024, 6:12 pm
Ask your rabbi.
I wouldn’t.
It also depends on the material as the “flavor” gets into the cup.
Especially if you ever put hot chicken soup into it.
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ShishKabob
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Tue, Sep 24 2024, 6:13 pm
It's definitely something to aylor.
Edited to add: I just double checked on this. Some people hold that using the same glasses are ok, while others are (more stringent) of the opinion and don't allow it at all.
Last edited by ShishKabob on Wed, Sep 25 2024, 8:01 am; edited 1 time in total
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icedcoffee
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Tue, Sep 24 2024, 6:15 pm
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We use the same glass cups for both, as Sephardim typically hold that glass can be used for meat and dairy.
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tichellady
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Tue, Sep 24 2024, 6:17 pm
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I was always told glass can be used for both for cold
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Ellie7
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Tue, Sep 24 2024, 6:55 pm
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It’s not a temperature issue. It’s because glass as a material doesn’t absorb flavor halachically. That’s why Sephardim might use the same glass dishes for meat and dairy. In my experience, ashkenazim accept that this is a quality of glass but only apply it to drinking glasses.
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cookier
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Tue, Sep 24 2024, 7:00 pm
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Definitely something to ask your rabbi. My DH’s family holds using the same set for both as long as it’s cold, but we don’t. I don’t remember why honestly. We’re Ashkenazi.
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simcha12plus
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Tue, Sep 24 2024, 7:03 pm
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this is common sephardi practice, but no mainstream ashkenazi practice
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seeker
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Tue, Sep 24 2024, 8:25 pm
| Ellie7 wrote: | | It’s not a temperature issue. It’s because glass as a material doesn’t absorb flavor halachically. That’s why Sephardim might use the same glass dishes for meat and dairy. In my experience, ashkenazim accept that this is a quality of glass but only apply it to drinking glasses. |
This is how I learned, I'm Ashkenazic. Glass doesn't absorb milk/meat, but we're stringent for cookware etc and the custom is only drinking glasses are really used interchangeably. I do think it's probably related to temperature because who's putting boiling milk in a drinking glass? But I don't know if that's the reason.
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oohlala
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Tue, Sep 24 2024, 8:32 pm
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We use them interchangeably, put them in the dishwasher etc. but we are sefardi.
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amother
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Tue, Sep 24 2024, 8:52 pm
| seeker wrote: | | I do think it's probably related to temperature because who's putting boiling milk in a drinking glass? |
I dont really understand this stuff well, but why is putting boiling chicken soup into a drinking glass different than running the drinking glass in a meat dishwasher?
(on that note, nobody seems to really understand the principles of meat and milk and flavor transfer, and nobody ive ever seen has written a simple and articulate guide on this in plain english. I feel like nobody truly understands the principles and people just do what they grew up doing or what their rav told them.)
I know you can go to a treyf bar/restaurant and have a beer in their glass beer mug. I dont really understand why though. but if you can do that, I dont see why you cant use your glassware at home for both meat and milk.
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shabbatiscoming
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Tue, Sep 24 2024, 8:55 pm
| simcha12plus wrote: | | this is common sephardi practice, but no mainstream ashkenazi practice |
Im ashkrnazi and always learned that dafka glass is fine to use fo both chalavi and basari.
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seeker
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Tue, Sep 24 2024, 8:56 pm
| amother OP wrote: | | I dont really understand this stuff well, but why is putting boiling chicken soup into a drinking glass different than running the drinking glass in a meat dishwasher? |
Well first of all if glass doesn't absorb flavor then it doesn't matter. But secondly a dishwasher has a slew of differences (I've had to ask dishwasher questions a few times for different reasons...) The meat/milk are not directly touching each thing, the soap destroys the taste, etc.
| Quote: |
I know you can go to a treyf bar/restaurant and have a beer in their glass beer mug. I dont really understand why though. but if you can do that, I dont see why you cant use your glassware at home for both meat and milk. |
You can. That's what this thread is about.
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amother
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Tue, Sep 24 2024, 8:57 pm
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My kids have hard plastic cups and they use for both. I find it in the meat sink and then in the morning it’s in the dairy sink. But we don’t wash dishes with hot water. I trained my cleaning lady to always use lukewarm water because there’s always something parve there like a knife or a cup. I don’t think it’s lechetchila I will make an effort to ask if I’m doing right.
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amother
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Tue, Sep 24 2024, 10:58 pm
| amother Gladiolus wrote: | | My kids have hard plastic cups and they use for both. I find it in the meat sink and then in the morning it’s in the dairy sink. But we don’t wash dishes with hot water. I trained my cleaning lady to always use lukewarm water because there’s always something parve there like a knife or a cup. I don’t think it’s lechetchila I will make an effort to ask if I’m doing right. |
Please ask your Rabbi if this is permitted
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amother
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Tue, Sep 24 2024, 11:00 pm
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It's definitely allowed according to Halacha but the glass needs to be pure glass not acorac or other similar materials.
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amother
Lily
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Tue, Sep 24 2024, 11:08 pm
| amother OP wrote: | I dont really understand this stuff well, but why is putting boiling chicken soup into a drinking glass different than running the drinking glass in a meat dishwasher?
(on that note, nobody seems to really understand the principles of meat and milk and flavor transfer, and nobody ive ever seen has written a simple and articulate guide on this in plain english. I feel like nobody truly understands the principles and people just do what they grew up doing or what their rav told them.)
I know you can go to a treyf bar/restaurant and have a beer in their glass beer mug. I dont really understand why though. but if you can do that, I dont see why you cant use your glassware at home for both meat and milk. |
In most residential dishwashers there’s a hot rinse, without detergent, which would make it essentially the same as chicken soup unless you fully rinse the dishes first.. BUT, it doesn’t have anything to do with whether the glasses are truly meat or not (assuming you hold that glass can absorb at all). The question really is can you use meat glasses for cold drinks at a milk meal, and that you can do, because the drinks are cold. Taste only transfers through heat, pressure/sharpness, or soaking.
The same principle applies to drinks at treyf restaurants. As long as what’s going in the glass is cold, the treyf flavor won’t transfer.
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Ruchi
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Tue, Sep 24 2024, 11:14 pm
| amother Lily wrote: | In most residential dishwashers there’s a hot rinse, without detergent, which would make it essentially the same as chicken soup unless you fully rinse the dishes first.. BUT, it doesn’t have anything to do with whether the glasses are truly meat or not (assuming you hold that glass can absorb at all). The question really is can you use meat glasses for cold drinks at a milk meal, and that you can do, because the drinks are cold. Taste only transfers through heat, pressure/sharpness, or soaking.
The same principle applies to drinks at treyf restaurants. As long as what’s going in the glass is cold, the treyf flavor won’t transfer. |
I think glass doesn't get treif regardless if used hot, for milky and meat. Of course one should check with ones LOR .
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abrainbow
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Tue, Sep 24 2024, 11:14 pm
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I was always told that glass is fine between milchigs and fleishigs (yeshivish) but we try to have different sets because of mistakes/forgetting to wash it etc...
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Ruchi
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Tue, Sep 24 2024, 11:17 pm
There is no way of knowing if your cleaning help uses the water every time, according to your exact instructions, unless you turn on the faucet and watch her throughout.
There is no נאמנות when it comes to a non Jew. Especially with kashrus.
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