New rules for cell phone stores in Boro Park

amother

↑ Denim ↓

Today at 11:05 am

amother Coffee wrote:

Bec this will have the opposite effect, cause people to frequent less the kosher place. When you wield such tight control, it sends many people elsewhere.

There should be options for people to choose from, not forced upon you. Just like when you go to retailer, they offer a range of options to you. So too should the kosher places do here. Offer filter options, levels of filters, other services etc, and let the adult choose what works for them. The benefit of a kosher place should be that all kosher options are readily available for you to choose from. It shouldn't be that this is the only way we sell a phone to you and if you don't follow our rules, we will shut your services down.

Can you explain to me how offering the kosher options to customers isn't sufficient for us. Are you suggesting that we will only do what's best for our family if we are forced and controlled? The end result of such rules is that it will simply control and inconvenience those who would have gone for the kosher options anyways. Because those who don't want any options, will just go elsewhere now. So I fail to see how this benefits anyone other than a fake illusion of some control.

No-one is forcing anyone to do anything. Or shop anywhere.

In my city, there is a kosher cell-phone vendor who sells filtered devices. Others sell unfiltered ones. I'm very grateful that I have a filtered place for me and my kids to buy from. If someone wants to go elsewhere, feel free, but why would it bother you that filtered-only shops exist?
The Rabanin and TAG are not telling you where to shop, I fail to see the 'communism'.

amother

↑ Coffee ↓

Today at 11:13 am

amother Denim wrote:

What I'm not understanding is why is this the only way a kosher store can exist. Why can't it be like 'hey, we have a new service available that mandates you to select a filter otherwise the phone won't operate'. Why must it be like 'we will now only sell you a phone where you must select a preselected filter, otherwise your phone won't work'.

It's not the kosher store that I'm against. It's the way they're going about it. They're using it as a means of force and control instead of using it as a means to offer kosher options to the community.

amother

↑ Denim ↓

Today at 11:26 am

amother Coffee wrote:

Believe it or not, TAG are trying to HELP people. Unfortunately they are the ones who hear all the tragic stories. Whoever sees this as a control tactic is burying their head in the sand. Go buy your device outside the community, no-one's stopping you, but don't pretend there's no need for such shops.

amother

↑ Coffee ↓

Today at 11:28 am

amother Denim wrote:

There is a need to have kosher shops in our area that provides options for us.. There is no need to have a kosher shop in our area where they control your purchases. Therein lies the difference.

amother

↑ Denim

Today at 11:33 am

amother Coffee wrote:

There is a need to have kosher shops in our area that provides options for us.. There is no need to have a kosher shop in our area where they control your purchases. Therein lies the difference.

I don't understand. There are kosher shops where you can only buy kosher devices. There are also other shops. No-one is telling you that you can only shop in the kosher ones. Feel free to go where you want.

Are you upset that some shops only sell Kosher? Why? You don't have to go, but why stop there being an option for those who do want it?

My Kosher butcher only sells meat with a particular hechsher. Are they also controlling me perhaps?

amother

Yolk

Today at 11:37 am

amother Denim wrote:

Yeah but it is a control tactic.
In my case, I filter my devices with very liberal filters and settings. Our main goal is to keep p-rn out, I dont care about much else. We use cheap filters, that WE parents control, have the passwords to, and WE can grant permission to things that are blocked. Our filters also send us a report of everywhere the device accessed, down to the specific youtube site. Our kids are raised to make good choices, knowing we are watching, with the main blocker being p-rn, nudity etc.

You really think TAG and these stores are ok with my filter? No, they wont be, because its too liberal for them even though I have done exhaustive research and this is literally how we believe is the OPTIMAL way to do it.

Difference of opinion thats all it is.
But they wont sell me a phone this way

amother

↑ Coffee

Today at 11:44 am

amother Denim wrote:

It's more like you have a kosher butcher who now will only sell particular cuts of meat instead of a full product line.

These stores are now being asked to eliminate other kosher options and only offer a select few. This will now cause people to shop in places where they have zero kosher options.

Additionally, the schools can control you through the phones you have versus they cannot control you via what meats you buy. Till now, it was sufficient if you had a kosher phone or a filtered phone. They will now likely require you to buy one of these new phones from such stores. That is the long term goal here if you havent realized. The people enforcing this know full well that we can go buy phones elsewhere. So why exactly do they think this will work? Why exactly are the stores ok with it, if this would push away many of their customers? Because the next step is for the schools to enforce this, they will force people to buy phones thru these stores. The stores are the guaranteed sales, and the people in power force it upon society.

↑ the world's best mom ↓

Today at 11:57 am

My butcher sells only Glatt Kosher and it doesn't bother me, even though halachically, not Glatt is really permissible.

It says the stores allow some choices of which filter to use. Yes, there probably are some pretty much okay filters that are not on the level they allow. But the only reason anyone would be bothered by that is if the filters the people want allow sites that the approved filters do not allow. IOW, sites you like to use but are not really so okay according to all opinions.

amother

Taupe

Today at 12:00 pm

amother Denim wrote:

I believe that TAG is trying to help people. I also believe they dont realize that their heavy handed approach turns many people off. They would do better with more education and less control tactics.

amother

Cornsilk

Today at 12:02 pm

the world's best mom wrote:

Have the Rabbanim/ mashgichim decided that all the butchers in your city only selling Glatt? Are there options within your city for a consumer who doesn't think they must have Glatt? What will happen to a person who doesn't want to eat Glatt? Will his family not be accepted in community schools?
Change Glatt to filter.

Trademark ↓

Today at 12:19 pm

I don't see a problem that a store chooses to sell only pre-filtered phones.

But I can see it turning away many customers, even the ones who want a filter. Who wants to give access to their device to a store that can turn it off whenever they wish?

I would not want anyone besides myself to have access.

↑ the world's best mom

Today at 2:12 pm

amother Cornsilk wrote:

It has basically become the rule that all reliably kosher butchers sell only Glatt. There are plenty of treif butchers too, as I'm sure there are non Jewish cell phone stores in the BP area.

The question is, why would I want to seek out meat that is not Glatt Kosher? It allows leniencies, and why should I prefer that over Glatt?

The difference here is that Glatt kosher meat and not Glatt taste exactly the same. There is no reason for me to seek out the lesser kashrus. But the less kosher filter allows sites that people are addicted to that the frum filters won't allow. these sites are mostly time wasters. And that's why everyone is upset about it.

amother

Daisy ↓

Today at 9:11 pm

amother Yolk wrote:

So is it better when you are the controller? Parhaps what you arguing against TAG is exectly what your kids are thinking of their parents. Fair game?

↑ Trademark

Today at 9:56 pm

amother Daisy wrote:

So is it better when you are the controller? Parhaps what you arguing against TAG is exectly what your kids are thinking of their parents. Fair game?

Seriously?

Because parents parenting their children is exactly the same as controlling adults.

You know we should do a community-wide curfew because parents have bedtime and curfews for their children. I think it's fair game.

amother

↑ Daisy

Today at 10:00 pm

Trademark wrote:

Parenting and controling are not the same. Sorry.

What will hold them the day after getting merried when you cant track them anymore on every move?