The difference between Emunah & Bitachon

↑ b.chadash ↓

Thu, Sep 19 2024, 8:36 am

amother Mulberry wrote:

I don't mean to uninspire you but don't almost all the stories in living emunah have happy endings? Don't they portray life that if you believe hashem will help you then he will?

I hear that you may have a problem with such a mehalech, because it can be misleading.

But if you think deeper into it, every story DOES have a happy ending. We just don't always get to see it.

Sometimes it takes months, sometimes years, and sometimes generations for the "happy result" to be evident.

But if we truly believe and trust in Hashem, we know that every story does have a good ending. When we read and hear stories where the happy ending is evident, and we can clearly see yad Hashem in it, it gives chizzuk that other stories that we don't see a happy end for, are also ultimately good.

Last edited by b.chadash on Thu, Sep 19 2024, 8:58 am; edited 2 times in total

amother

Daffodil

Thu, Sep 19 2024, 9:09 am

amother Apple wrote:

That the mehalech of Michael Safdie too and he says he takes it straight from shaar habitachon

I’ve learned Shaar Bitachon many times over an taught it as well- it changed my life in a millions ways- but it does not guarantee a happily ever after in the way we understand happy.

As another poster wrote we may not see the good in our lifetime.

I’m not a fan of feel good Emunah and Bitachon. You can still believe and trust Hashem even when your world and the world is up in flames and the worst comes to pass. Someone with happy endings Emunah would be crushed by that result… someone with real Bitachon knows that the story is never over… and we don’t know what good is.

amother

↑ Mulberry ↓

Thu, Sep 19 2024, 9:11 am

b.chadash wrote:

Ok, I'll rephrase. The stories in the emunah books have happy endings that we can see. It seems very misleading to me.

I think one of the chapters discusses how emunah cures cancer. Another story in the book is about a tzadik with a toothache. The tazdik did a cheshbon hanefesh as to why hashem gave him the toothache and it went away.

Look, there's suffering in this world. The ways of hashem are unexplainable. From bigger things such as the holocaust to individual suffering such as why this one never got married, this one never had children, and that one died young. We just don't know.

I also think it's questionable whether the happy endings are even happening more for people having emunah.

Do you think the lung cancer survival rate is better among frum Jews with emunah than gentiles in Arkansas? Did Jews with emunah do better during covid? I think they did worse tbh.

amother

↑ Apple

Thu, Sep 19 2024, 9:12 am

amother Daffodil wrote:

Ya, I’m just sharing that this is his approach.

↑ b.chadash ↓

Thu, Sep 19 2024, 9:36 am

amother Mulberry wrote:

Personally, I found a huge shift in my day to day bitachon when I was listening to Rabbi Ashear's "Daily Chizuk" message.
I internalized the message that Hashem is good. It was the daily input that made a huge difference in my mindset. I didn't infer from there that I must see happy endings every time something went wrong. But it helped me be in the right frame of mind.

The question is not whether good things happen more to people who have emuna. Rather, people who have the ability to see yad Hashem are more appreciative, centered and get less bent out of shape when things go wrong.

We have a well grounded mesora to look for and repeat "hashgacha pratis" stories.
These are not just for the feeble-minded.
It's an approach to life and to seeing yad Hashem in everything.

Rabbi Akiva is the model of someone who had the ability to see the bigger picture and trust that everything Hashem does is for the best.
The gemara tells us about the time when he was traveling and denied hospitality in a town, so was forced to sleep in the forest. He said - whatever Hashem does is for the best. He had a donkey, but the donkey was attacked. His rooster was killed. Then his flame was extinguished. At each misfortune, he repeated that whatever Hashem does is for the best. In the end, he watched as the town was attacked in the night and the people were killed. He realized how Hashem was saving his life with every seeming misfortune.

And he kept this attitude until the end, even as he was being murdered.

And finally, yes, I do believe that people with emuna see more miracles than non believers. I think a baal bitachon davens dufferently than one who is not. I don't have statistics to back this up. But I have heard this many times from doctors being quoted.

Last edited by b.chadash on Tue, Sep 24 2024, 10:25 pm; edited 1 time in total

amother

↑ Mulberry

Thu, Sep 19 2024, 9:58 am

b.chadash wrote:

Personally, I found a huge shift in my day to day bitachon when I was listening to Rabbi Ashear's "Daily Chizuk" message.
I internalized the message that Hashem is good. It was the daily input that made a huge difference in my mindset. I didn't infer from there that I must see happy endings every time something went wrong. But it helped me be in the right frame of mind.

The question is not whether good things happen more to people who have emuna. Rather, people who have the ability to see yad Hashem are more appreciative, centered and get less bent out of shape when things go wrong.

We have a well grounded mesora to look for and repeat "hashgacha pratis" stories.
These are not just for the feeble-minded.
It's an approach to life and to seeing yad Hashem in everything.

Rabbi Akiva is the model of someone who had the ability to see the bigger picture and trust that everything Hashem does is for the best.
The gemara tells us about the time when he was traveling and denied hospitality in a town, so was forced to sleep in the forest. He said - whatever Hashem does is for the best. He had a donkey, but the donkey was attacked. His rooster was killed. Then his flame was extinguished. At each misfortune, he repeated that whatever Hashem does is for the best. In the end, he watched as the town was attacked in the night and the people were killed. He realized how Hashem was saving his life with every seeming misfortune.

And he kept this attitude until the end, even as he was being murdered.

And finally, yes, I do belive that people with emuna see more miracles than non believers. I think a baal bitachon davens dufferently than one who is not. I don't have statistics to back this up. But I have heard this many times from doctors being quoted.

I believe that hashem protects the Jewish nation as a whole and prevents our extinction despite our man enemies who have us outnumbered by a ridiculous amount.

Unfortunately I don't think Jews are getting cancer less, suffer from tragedies less, or anything else. If it were true it would be obvious.

In some ways it almost appears the opposite. While Jews are more successful than others we also seem to experience more suffering than others as well. The gentile living in the middle of Kansas doesn't know from bomb shelters or anti semitism.

amother

Alyssum

Thu, Sep 19 2024, 10:01 am

Emunah is the knowledge
Bitachon is the trust

There is a misunderstanding that people think that if a person has emunah / Bitachon they can decide the outcome and hashem will give them that.
This is falsie. We don’t have the ability to manipulate hashem ( the only place where we are allowed to test Hashem is through meiser)

However a person with real Bitachon believes that hashem will take care of them. They give their problems over to Hashem. Without dictating to Hashem how to solve their problem
Those people I do see have lives that defy derech hateva.
And to them it is normal.

That is a much harder place because you don’t know the outcome but trust hashem to take care of you.

When you live like that you have a much more happy and tranquil life BH

↑ PinkFridge ↓

Thu, Sep 19 2024, 10:04 am

amother Mulberry wrote:

No, we're definitely not getting cancer less. BeH, many people are recovering these days, but more, we deal with it effectively.

Take ALS. Frum people with ALS live far beyond the expectations in the outside world. I actually heard about a gentile philanthropist who remarkably was at something like 15 years. And I suspect it's because he's committed to living a life of meaning and maximing relationships.

↑ PinkFridge

Thu, Sep 19 2024, 10:06 am

amother Alyssum wrote:

There's a famous Rabbi Paysach Krohn story.
Hey, look what I found while googling a source for this story. Scroll down to my post: https://www.imamother.com/foru.....13927
And this: https://www.jewishpress.com/se.....2/15/

↑ b.chadash ↓

Thu, Sep 19 2024, 10:08 am

amother Mulberry wrote:

I didn't say that jews suffer fewer misfortunes. Obviously not. Hashem has a cheshbon for each jew individually and for the nation as a whole.

What I said is that a person with bitachon sees more good, and experiences a greater level of yad Hashem. Perhaps because they are open to it, but people who have eyes of bitachon clearly experience more miracles.
The passuk in Tehillim says "Haboteach BaHashem, chessed yesovevenu" . The person who trusts in Hashem is surrounded by chessed.

I truly think that anyone who opens their eyes can see this very clearly.

↑ b.chadash

Tue, Sep 24 2024, 10:34 pm

b.chadash wrote:

And finally, yes, I do believe that people with emuna see more miracles than non believers. I think a baal bitachon davens dufferently than one who is not. I don't have statistics to back this up. But I have heard this many times from doctors being quoted.

I'm bumping up this thread from last week because I was just randomly listening to a shiur, and the speaker mentioned something that relates to this discussion which I found interesting.

In response to a poster who said that she doesn't think Jews have better outcomes in sickness than others, I wrote that I do believe that people with emuna/faith see more miracles. I couldn't back it up then but I did remember hearing of studies done that proved this.

I was just now listening to Sarah Pachter who said that there was a double blind study done in Duke University Medical Center, in which it showed that cardiac patients who were prayed for did 11% better than any other cohort in the hospital.

While this is more about prayer than faith, I think it's obvious that the two are intertwined.

Here is the link to the shiur, which is excellent and worth listening to.
https://torahanytime.com/lectures/321792

amother

Rose

Wed, Sep 25 2024, 12:38 am

amother Mulberry wrote:

There are some aspects of our lifestyle that protects us. I see young people walking around late at night without fear in frum neighborhoods; I can think of some other neighborhoods where this is very much not so. I haven't really heard of a gang war breaking out in the middle of Boro Park or Bnei Brak... Frum people often have more nachas from their children so in that sense they have happier lives. And the value of knowing that we live life for a purpose, we have peace of mind knowing that Hashem is taking care of us... these are very valuable benefits of being frum.

And yet of course, we are the ones who are the victims of anti semitism... bloody pogroms in every country throughout history. Expulsions, torture, anti semitic laws and actions... the Holocaust... rockets flying on a constant basis into our land with the world pretending that we are the attackers... I agree this is something I don't understand, why is the am hanivchar always treated so badly.