S/O Are wealthy parents are obligated to support...

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giftedmom ↓

Mon, Sep 16 2024, 5:27 pm

amother Vanilla wrote:

No.
But they do have a chiyuv of tzedaka to their closest relatives.

If a parent is wealthy that they're being honored at dinners and having plaques on schools, yet they're child is taking Tomchei Shabbos or begging for tuition breaks, then yes, I believe according to halacha, something is wrong because tzedaka is supposed to be given to close relatives first.

But once the children are able to pay for basic needs (reasonable food, matza and wine for Pesach, tuition, reasonably housing, clothes, basic medical expenses) then no. The parent does not have an obligation to support the child.

Agree with this. Same goes for parents and siblings. Family comes first when it comes to maaser.

Molly Weasley

Mon, Sep 16 2024, 6:16 pm

Not obligated at all at the level she was accustomed to, but has a basic obligation to ensure their basic well-being.

amother

Lemonchiffon

Mon, Sep 16 2024, 6:28 pm

No, they're not obligated to give anything.

BUT, I think we should be cognizant of our choices and how they will affect our children and their standards. I really do feel bad for the kids who grew up with everything and now have a gaping hole that can only be filled with gashmius.

↑ giftedmom ↓

Mon, Sep 16 2024, 6:40 pm

As for the original op this is not at all the core issue. Op has posted in the past and their relationship is problematic and borderline abusive. It’s not about the money but about how it’s used to hurt and control the kids.

Traveller247

Mon, Sep 16 2024, 6:47 pm

I recently heard (although I can't remember the source) that just like one is obligated to give tzedakah to the standard the needy person is accustomed to (if he recently lost his money e.g.), so to, if parents raised their children on a high standard it's on them to provide for them that lifestyle even once they are married. They taught them to be used to this and they need it carry that responsibility further. So yes, if someone raises their child to be spoiled they can't just wipe their hands off them once they marry them off.

amother

Amber

Mon, Sep 16 2024, 6:54 pm

While they don’t have to give I can’t understand why parents would want to watch their kids struggle with large families and cramped living quarters. While they don’t have to give support I would imagine for large or one time expenses like a house or a simcha they would step up so they can watch their kids not have to work so hard, and have the nachas of their money going to benefit their kids while they can still see it. I’m talking about normal relationships and hardworking kids who just can’t get a break with todays inflation.

Trademark

Mon, Sep 16 2024, 7:27 pm

I didn't read the other thread just basing it off the OP 's question.

The parents are not obligated at all.

But if they are very wealthy and living a comfortable lifestyle and money is not an issue, if they refuse to help their children it will create resentment.

I'm not talking about spoiling them, but helping them out if you have the ability.

I think it's super human to feel zero resentment when your parents are living large and refuse to help you.

My 2 cents.

amother

Sienna

Mon, Sep 16 2024, 8:00 pm

They're not obligated to help and they're not obligated to support.

BUT.

If you raise your children at a certain level of wealth, and you continue living on that level without helping your struggling children, it's going to create a certain level of resentment. I'm wondering how many posters who think the other OP is overreacting is actually in her position. As R Sholom Schwadron's famous story, when its MY Meirka it's a whole different story.

Also, I think part of the problem is that the the father raised certain expectations and didn't deliver. "I am going to buy you a house" at that income level does NOT mean 20 thousand dollars for a down payment.

amother

NeonBlue

Mon, Sep 16 2024, 8:09 pm

No. No. And no.
Parents are NOT obligated to buy their married couples anything. It's not a most and everything they DO get should be appreciated.

Since the day I got married we haven't received a single penny from our parents- no presents. No financial help....

amother

DarkRed

Mon, Sep 16 2024, 8:29 pm

Not obligated but then also not allowed to put any pressure whatsoever that the kids need to live at a certain standard so as not to 'embarrass' the parents.

amother

↑ Latte ↓

Mon, Sep 16 2024, 8:30 pm

amother DarkRed wrote:

Not obligated but then also not allowed to put any pressure whatsoever that the kids need to live at a certain standard so as not to 'embarrass' the parents.

100%

amother

Cinnamon

Mon, Sep 16 2024, 8:31 pm

No way.
I grew up as the youngest in a fairly wealthy family in a fairly wealthy community. We had a beautiful large house (but I did have to share bedroom/bathroom with siblings).

We were extremely lucky to be partially supported by my parents and ILs for a couple of years until DH went to work. And by "supported" I mean they gave us a set amount and we learned to budget. I think part of the problem is parents who pay their married kids' rent/cc/whatever directly, the young couple gains no money-management skills that way.

We saved intensely during those early years. Lived in a (less than ideal) basement for 8 years. Bought a small cheap starter house (luckily we were able to buy when it was cheaper, we're talking about 10 years ago). Saved some more and eventually renovated and extended. Our parents extremely generously contributed to our down payment (not the whole thing) and then we were on our own. We were able to pay the down payment by ourselves and used their money to do some updates that we'd been planning to wait for.

Nothing compares to the freedom and pride of doing these things ourselves.

This is what all of our friends did. I feel sorry for the young couples these days who feel like they "need" to buy a house after a year or two because that's what all their friends are doing.

We don't have married kids yet but iy"H will be entering shidduchim in about 5 years. Our kids are very unspoiled despite us being fairly wealthy ourselves these days, BH bli ayin hara. They know all about our humble beginnings, how we had one old car, lived in a basement, etc. I still employ many helpful frugal habits (but not in an unhealthy way!).

I feel bad for that OP but I see it as a cautionary tale in raising my own children!

amother

DarkGreen

Mon, Sep 16 2024, 8:35 pm

amother DarkRed wrote:

Not obligated but then also not allowed to put any pressure whatsoever that the kids need to live at a certain standard so as not to 'embarrass' the parents.

This!
The op on the other thread said her father found the house and wants her to buy it even if she can’t afford it. (And she can’t even be sure she will get the amount that he is promising besides for what she has to pay) and he wants her to empty her savings for it because that’s what he will match. (She should leave some money in case of emergency)

The op might need to work on her issues about her wants and needs.

But that is a separate issue about buying this house, the unhealthy relationship and the father using the money as a control peace.

amother

Apple

Mon, Sep 16 2024, 8:40 pm

Not obligated but if I'd be wealthy it would be my pleasure to help my kids with whatever they need.

amother

Molasses

Mon, Sep 16 2024, 10:58 pm

No, but there is a concept in tzedakah of helping each person on his level. A rich man who lost his wealth should be helped to a higher degree. I think a similar concept can be applied to children who grew up a certain way. Especially if they still run in those circles, friends and relatives

Also when the parents give gifts that require children to spend to maintain or similar, they should be aware of that and only do it if the kids really want. Eg giving expensive car that will have expensive insurance or taking family away for yontif to fancy resort where they change 3 times a day, buying clothes with the caveat that you must get them tailored etc

My parents are wealthy and I really struggle with some of these things. They really don’t get what it means to live on less.

B'Syata D'Shmya

Mon, Sep 16 2024, 11:19 pm

amother OP wrote:

This is a spin off of the thread where the poster wants to buy an expensive house and is resentful her father isn't giving her more money. She says her father raised her a certain way but now doesn't want to support her to that level. Do you think parents are obligated to support their married kids in the manner that they were raised if they can afford to do so?

You ask what I think. I think the Torah is our best guide and a parent should ask a Rav what to do. Writing that a parent isnt obligated etc. isnt the issue. Each situation is its own.
Example: The Torah tells us that Avraham Avinu gave gifts to his children from Hagar/Yishmael.

If parents can help, why not? The success of their children will reflect on the parents. If the parents cant help then there is nothing to talk about. Ironically, I have seen children who got nothing but hugs and warmth from their parents eulogize their parents with far greater accolades than from children of wealthy. For some, its never enough no matter how much you give them.

I know a couple who were gifted an expensive, luxurious home at the start. Their fortunes turned and they had to sell to pay off some debt, moved into a cramped uncomfortable apartment (just when all their friends were upgrading too...). They had the best attitude about it. Their kids learned from them.

I think the resentful OP is more upset that her parents will boast about helping when she feels they dont. ( " they will be telling everyone tht they are buying us a house. When they are only giving minimum down payment and they saying tht no one gives more than tht. I know its huge and yes I am thankful but im rlly curious bec I have heard of ppl in such circles buying houses in cash for their kids or putting down 300-500k etc") Later she writes that her brother will be getting more than her etc. She also admits that if they are super careful with money, they can make it work, but she is afraid (even though her father will cosign...). She does come off as whiney.

In her case, I would remind her that she has a third father in Shamayim and if she feels she needs more than is offered, she daven to him.

As an aside, I do believe in helping children equally, according to what you have. I think creating friction by helping some and not others causes more harm than good.

amother

Maroon

Yesterday at 2:23 am

No. Not at all. But at the same time, don't flaunt your money in my face.

Don't give my kids fancy chocolates (they don't even appreciate it, get them a cheap nosh instead) and take them to a hotel for Shabbos when I'm nervous how I will buy bread and milk this week. (Example from years ago, BH we can now afford food!!)

Don't take the extended family on crazy expensive vacations halfway across the world. I don't want my kids to think that is normal. I also can't provide comparable entertainment the rest of the year. And while you may be paying for the vacation, I can't afford the ride to the airport/ extra clothing expenses/extra food expenses etc.

PLEASE stop asking me to distribute money to all the vendors you employ in my country. I especially don't enjoy the pre YT influx of cash sent to my bank account.....to distribute to specific people that need help before YT. Why am I chopped liver? To see the amount of money I am supposed to pass on without thinking of us is hard. And I always lose out because of exchange rates and other fees. (I guess I could take it off of what I pass on but it is just weird.)

In short- spend lavishly but just leave me out of it. Ok?

abbie

Yesterday at 2:36 am

Obligated to support and buy houses for married kids, no, never.
But I do believe parents are obligated to help their kids to have options in life which would allow them to be independedent, eg choosing/paying for a career path, setting up an investment account...

amother

Seablue

Yesterday at 5:55 am

We are comfortable, maybe people would call us wealthy.
DH and I have worked very hard to get where we are today. We both put ourselves through college, did not get financial help as newlyweds, no help to buy our home, etc. BH we have been blessed in our respective careers and made a beautiful home for our children. We have a few children in shidduchim now.
We pay for college, 100%. The tuition, books, and whatever they need to get through school.
As soon as they graduate they can start saving money from their salary as they are debt free.

We told them that we will give each of them a set amount to buy a first home. One child is already looking into buying something small and renting it out so he can start building equity.
The way that we were able to afford where we live now is by buying small and then selling and using the equity to upgrade.
We've been very open with our kids about how that happens and budgeting, etc.
We didn't attain our lifestyle overnight.
There were many years of no luxuries.
If we choose to go on an upgraded vacation, our kids don't expect that at their ages.

They know there will be no set support. We will not commit to that. We expect our kids to live within their means. At this point they are making livable salaries. We will help to get them started in adult life but won't be financing every home upgrade and other things.

amother

Electricblue

Yesterday at 7:00 am

but why dont they want to help
I cant understand why my inlaws who have money and arent obligated to help dont want to make thier children and grandchildrens life easier.
I am not talking about paying for fancy things, fancy vacays and the like...
they come to the house and see how we live in such modesty
so many things we cant afford and need
למה לא?
I am davening that I will ave to give to my kids.

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